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Thread: Need strats to overcome bards healing in Warfronts

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Elite Seraph's Avatar
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    Default Need strats to overcome bards healing in Warfronts

    Mostly this is in Black Garden, but it also applies pretty well to any group vs group situation.

    Here's what I've been seeing, and granted this is only level 29 and below stuff, since that's as far as I've gotten. But for the past...oh....10 games or so, in EVERY game, literally, the top healer has always been a rogue. In one game, the top FIVE healers were all rogues. Hell, in my last game of the night, the entire enemy team was all rogues(not premade, I checked and they were from different servers).

    I don't know if this is due to a severe lack of healers in other classes, healing being too strong in the first place, or if its simply due to the ease of healing that bards have in group situations. But it seems extremely powerful, and I'm not sure how to overcome it.

    What I'm seeing are DPSers playing stupidly and not being punished for it because they have 2-3 bards constantly spamming their heal. The heal itself doesn't need to be targetted, and automatically covers the entire raid of the warfront. So the dps are just running out into the open, getting focused, realize their in trouble, then just run back to the friendly pack, or out of range. The entire time, their health bar is barely moving because they have a constant influx of heals.

    I've seen it on the enemy team, and I've seen it on my own.

    So, because the game is still very new, and I myself don't claim to be a pro, I'm not going to sit here and ask for nerfs. What I am going to look for are some strats on how I can fight the blanket heals that the bards are throwing down so much.

    I play a caster cleric built for dps and the occational emergency heal on myself or a teammate. Generally speaking I'm either at the top of the damage meter at the end of the warfront, or very near to it. I also don't just spam dots to pad my score; I focus fire and burst when I see someone below 50%. Any time I catch a person without a healer in their back pocket, I usually drop them(unless they're a healer spamming on themself).

    Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    The only thing I can suggest is to interrupt the bard as much as possible. A warrior is a good option since they have a lot of interrupts.

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Kruunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Seraph View Post
    Mostly this is in Black Garden, but it also applies pretty well to any group vs group situation.

    Here's what I've been seeing, and granted this is only level 29 and below stuff, since that's as far as I've gotten. But for the past...oh....10 games or so, in EVERY game, literally, the top healer has always been a rogue. In one game, the top FIVE healers were all rogues. Hell, in my last game of the night, the entire enemy team was all rogues(not premade, I checked and they were from different servers).

    I don't know if this is due to a severe lack of healers in other classes, healing being too strong in the first place, or if its simply due to the ease of healing that bards have in group situations. But it seems extremely powerful, and I'm not sure how to overcome it.

    What I'm seeing are DPSers playing stupidly and not being punished for it because they have 2-3 bards constantly spamming their heal. The heal itself doesn't need to be targetted, and automatically covers the entire raid of the warfront. So the dps are just running out into the open, getting focused, realize their in trouble, then just run back to the friendly pack, or out of range. The entire time, their health bar is barely moving because they have a constant influx of heals.

    I've seen it on the enemy team, and I've seen it on my own.

    So, because the game is still very new, and I myself don't claim to be a pro, I'm not going to sit here and ask for nerfs. What I am going to look for are some strats on how I can fight the blanket heals that the bards are throwing down so much.

    I play a caster cleric built for dps and the occational emergency heal on myself or a teammate. Generally speaking I'm either at the top of the damage meter at the end of the warfront, or very near to it. I also don't just spam dots to pad my score; I focus fire and burst when I see someone below 50%. Any time I catch a person without a healer in their back pocket, I usually drop them(unless they're a healer spamming on themself).

    Any suggestions?
    Simplest way to beat a Bard is to BEAT UP THE BARD.

    Grab a partner and focus him down (or do it solo if you're bursty enough).

    The reason you're seeing Bards top the charts in healing:

    1) Their main attack (Cadence) is talented at 8 points to heal them and their group/raid.

    2) 12 Point Bards have Motiff of Regeneration which is a small HOT that hits the group/raid.

    3) 21 point Bards have Coda of Restoration which is a finisher that heals the group/raid.

    Bard heals aren't hard to beat and they aren't more potent then a specced Cleric for single target heals. They are all AOE heals which means they will always top the charts but this is a bit misleading.

    Their primary attack (Cadence) is a channeled spell (3 seconds). It can be beat with stuns/interrupts or simple circle strafing.

    Coda of Restoration is not a huge heal ... you should be able to DPS through it if you are a DPS class.

    Bottom line, kill the Bard first which is just a Rift offshoot of any PvP game's "kill the healer first" mantra.
    Last edited by Kruunch; 03-02-2011 at 06:44 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Madae's Avatar
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    There's nothing you can do. All healer souls need the bat in one of the following ways;

    1. More pushback when getting hit.
    or
    2. Removal of flat-damage reduction and non-interruptable defenses (bubbles).
    or
    3. Lowered amount of overall healing and/or increased mana cost.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Kruunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madae View Post
    There's nothing you can do. All healer souls need the bat in one of the following ways;

    1. More pushback when getting hit.
    or
    2. Removal of flat-damage reduction and non-interruptable defenses (bubbles).
    or
    3. Lowered amount of overall healing and/or increased mana cost.
    Unfortunately none of this applies to the Bard.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Madae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    Unfortunately none of this applies to the Bard.
    Lowered amount of healing does.

    I know this game is all about breaking tradition, what with Rogue tanks and healers, but Rogue's should not be able to heal as well as they do.
    Last edited by Madae; 03-02-2011 at 06:50 AM.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Kruunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madae View Post
    Lowered amount of healing does.
    You want heal specs to heal less so they are easier for you to kill?

    That's what you're going with?

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Madae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    You want heal specs to heal less so they are easier for you to kill?

    That's what you're going with?
    Or maybe they are healing too much to begin with - have you thought of that, smart one?

  9. #9
    Shadowlander Zinj's Avatar
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    Kruunch's posts are spot on, with the exception of the comment about circle strafing. I play a Bard/Marksman/Riftstalker and I think it's funny when people try to jump around and circle strafe around me. I play with a high DPI mouse and I just track them around without getting interupted by LoS issues.

    Anyone with half a brain and a modicum of hand eye coordination isn't going to be put off by the witty and crafty MMORPG strategy of running around in circles and sometimes adding in a bunny hop.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    They're healing is aoe and not that powerful. Have everyone attack the same enemy and they will die.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Zinj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madae View Post
    Or maybe they are healing too much to begin with - have you thought of that, smart one?
    I play a Bard and I can tell you right now, there's no way in hell that a Bard can be a main Healer in PvP or PvE. The heals just aren't that effective.

    If your going up against groups with a real healer and a Bard, the Bard makes it easier for the Healer to do his thing without having to try to keep everyone topped off or try to set up Heals for what they think is about to happen.

    It allows the real Healer to conserve mana for nuke Healing.

    You should try playing a Bard build and you'll understand that they are buffing machines, but it comes at the cost of reduced DPS.

    Have I topped DPS charts at the end of a Warfront? Yes I have, but I didn't top the Healing chart when I did it.

    Have I topped the Healing chart? Yes I have, but it wasn't by much and I didn't come close to the top of the board in any other category.

    Bards have awesome group utility and add so many things to group play. Sure they have tools to do a lot things that can be underscored and strengthened by your other soul choices, but they play like the are described in the game: Jack of all trades, master of none.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Elite Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    You want heal specs to heal less so they are easier for you to kill?

    That's what you're going with?
    I don't necessarily think that they need to have the number of the heals nerfed. But the fact that they don't even have to aim kinda sticks in my craw. And its more or less spammable as well.

    Idially you'd think that AoE heals should be EXPENSIVE to use, specifically for the reason that they're fire and forget. They should have longer cooldowns or prohibitive costs associated with them so a person is forced to use them strategically.

    As it is, bards seem to be able to fire off these heals with no concequence. And when there's more than one of them? This is further exacerbated by the proliferation of self-heals or shields that many souls have.


    I don't have a problem with bards being effective healers. My problem is with the nature of how they're doing it, and the difficulty of overcoming it.

    I play a Bard and I can tell you right now, there's no way in hell that a Bard can be a main Healer in PvP or PvE. The heals just aren't that effective.

    If your going up against groups with a real healer and a Bard, the Bard makes it easier for the Healer to do his thing without having to try to keep everyone topped off or try to set up Heals for what they think is about to happen.
    Go back and read my OP. The problem isn't with single bards. Its with groups of bards all spamming.
    Last edited by Elite Seraph; 03-02-2011 at 07:06 AM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Kruunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madae View Post
    Or maybe they are healing too much to begin with - have you thought of that, smart one?
    I've never had a problem with their healing.

    I just smush them.

    But maybe that's me just being a "smart one".

  14. #14
    Ascendant Blays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orishas View Post
    They're healing is aoe and not that powerful. Have everyone attack the same enemy and they will die.
    was about to say the same thing.

    Bards heal group with HoTs just focus fire and they are not a problem.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Kruunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinj View Post
    Kruunch's posts are spot on, with the exception of the comment about circle strafing. I play a Bard/Marksman/Riftstalker and I think it's funny when people try to jump around and circle strafe around me. I play with a high DPI mouse and I just track them around without getting interupted by LoS issues.

    Anyone with half a brain and a modicum of hand eye coordination isn't going to be put off by the witty and crafty MMORPG strategy of running around in circles and sometimes adding in a bunny hop.
    That's why I have Bash loaded into my attack rotation.

    To make you regret spending that $150 on a mouse

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