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Thread: Rift: War of the Healers

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Madae's Avatar
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    Default Rift: War of the Healers

    I seriously doubt anything I say will win over anyone when I say this, or that there is a good way to say it without everyone immediately jumping on it and telling me I'm wrong in a variety of ways, so I'm just going to say that I feel that healers of all types in this game need to be reworked and toned down - they are simply too powerful, and too numerous because of that fact.

    The customization afforded to players, while a great idea and something I truly like, will literally be the downfall of this game in my opinion if something is not done to balance it - and I'll admit that it's hard to do something like this effectively, especially in a game like this. Champions Online suffered from the same problem, and unfortunately their answer to fixing it was to completely change the game ala-SWG. I don't want to see that happen, but I also don't see people sticking it out in this game for the long term the way it is now.

    You can disagree all you want, but I know it will get tiresome and people will eventually quit playing because of this shortcoming. It happened in CO, and it will happen here. I really don't want that to happen, so please do something.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    If you have played any GOOD pvp game, then you should of noticed this in it. Healers can not be killed quickly, healers are the turning point in battles, whoever has the better healers will win. Thats how pvp works.
    If you are complaining because it takes you forever to kill a cleric, then you either A) were not smart with your souls and didnt get an interrupt or B) you are expecting too much when facing a healer.
    As a cleric, I have healed through 2 or 3 dps if they dont have interrupts until I am out of mana. On the other hand, I have clicked the Respawn button rubbing my butt from a solo dps.
    If you are dying from a cleric that is also out healing you, I would be interested to see his soul choices.

    In this game everyone has their roles, some souls are better at killing healers than others. You cant expect EVERYTHING to be balanced so that any spec can kill everyone. There are counters to to different souls. If you dont like how Trion has set this game up, then leave. Im quite tired of all the whiners on these forums complaining about things that are obviously fine.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Madae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brambles View Post
    If you have played any GOOD pvp game, then you should of noticed this in it. Healers can not be killed quickly, healers are the turning point in battles, whoever has the better healers will win. Thats how pvp works.
    If you are complaining because it takes you forever to kill a cleric, then you either A) were not smart with your souls and didnt get an interrupt or B) you are expecting too much when facing a healer.
    As a cleric, I have healed through 2 or 3 dps if they dont have interrupts until I am out of mana. On the other hand, I have clicked the Respawn button rubbing my butt from a solo dps.
    If you are dying from a cleric that is also out healing you, I would be interested to see his soul choices.

    In this game everyone has their roles, some souls are better at killing healers than others. You cant expect EVERYTHING to be balanced so that any spec can kill everyone. There are counters to to different souls. If you dont like how Trion has set this game up, then leave. Im quite tired of all the whiners on these forums complaining about things that are obviously fine.
    I'm sorry my opinion offends you - perhaps you should leave.

    The game is also not fine, so... yeah, find somewhere else to complain about complaining.

    There's also so many holes in your post that it would take more time than I care to spend addressing it all.
    Last edited by Madae; 03-01-2011 at 09:46 PM.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    I have to agree with Brambles here - a healer is probably the strongest deciding factor in PvP. If you have a strong backline (note: this includes bards, because we can heal exceedingly well too, over 300 AoE HP per second every 15 seconds), then even the melee can be mentally impaired and you'd still out-last the opposing team. However, this still holds true with the opposite.

    I've been in many a warfront match where we severely lack backline players (read: no healing whatsoever), and the sole healer we DO have is DPS specced. Now, I'm of the opinion that you should adjust your build depending on the situation at hand. If I'm in a match and we have an overabundance of DPS, I'll run my bard build to provide the support. If it so happens that we're stacked with support, but lack DPS, I'll run my Marksman build. A very large quantity of healers are denser than concrete, and don't understand how to play their class.

    To be honest, in a PvP confrontation something resembling the following should happen: CC dropped on heavy-hitting plate, healers focusfired down along with any bards/chloromancers, then goes the clothies, followed by the rogues. Finally, you can do away with the plate. If something resembling that isn't happening; you're doing something wrong. Too many times I see idiots all focusfiring the plate that's charging into our group, whilst he's being healed by at least 2 different support classes. Not to mention the CC breaking when you try to lock the pesky melee DPS down.

    TL;DR: The perception that a class is "OP" is more due to player incompetence and inexperience than the game mechanics. Everything's balanced if you know how to handle it.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Learn to focus fire with a group?

    Step out of combat and switch roles to a voidknight, dominator, or any other anti-healer build you want to set up?

    Lots of ways for you to counter healers. Gets much easier to do the higher your level gets as people get more nifty tools like mana drains, stuns, interrupts, silences, heal debuffs, etc.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    Just a little addendum: I felt the EXACT same way about Saboteurs at the early levels, as it seemed that they matured faster than most classes. Now that I'm in the 30 bracket, I realize that all I have to do is pop Strafing and I do more damage in 4 seconds than they can do in 10. Sabos ain't got nothin' on me

  7. #7
    Soulwalker apocalance's Avatar
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    My 2...

    I've played a bard healer and not just a bard healer, but one built for war. I built heavy into heals in the bard tree and as much defense as I could pull from bard/rift/bd without sacrificing healing. What did I get from this? Really high health and great aoe heals. Can I stand toe-to-toe with someone dpsing me? Yes. Have I been completely shutdown so I couldn't heal and subsequently killed? Yes.

    This pvp doesn't feel anything like previous pvp I've experienced. This pvp feels more survivable. However, I've also played my ranger trick shot build and that was a lot of fun. High damage builds are fun, but as someone mentioned earlier, if you're not speccing for a little cc in your pvp builds, you're doing it wrong.

    Also, please remember we're all new at this. One day I'm sure we'll look back on this and see how inconsequential the first day of rift was... really.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madae View Post
    I seriously doubt anything I say will win over anyone when I say this, or that there is a good way to say it without everyone immediately jumping on it and telling me I'm wrong in a variety of ways, so I'm just going to say that I feel that healers of all types in this game need to be reworked and toned down - they are simply too powerful, and too numerous because of that fact.

    The customization afforded to players, while a great idea and something I truly like, will literally be the downfall of this game in my opinion if something is not done to balance it - and I'll admit that it's hard to do something like this effectively, especially in a game like this. Champions Online suffered from the same problem, and unfortunately their answer to fixing it was to completely change the game ala-SWG. I don't want to see that happen, but I also don't see people sticking it out in this game for the long term the way it is now.

    You can disagree all you want, but I know it will get tiresome and people will eventually quit playing because of this shortcoming. It happened in CO, and it will happen here. I really don't want that to happen, so please do something.
    This man is smart. Listen to him.

    Even if you are just changing the damage / healing / cooldown values by small percentages each patch (say, 5%). Just implement it! The perception of the community is what matters and this is a way to give a good impression.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwift View Post
    This man is smart. Listen to him.

    Even if you are just changing the damage / healing / cooldown values by small percentages each patch (say, 5%). Just implement it! The perception of the community is what matters and this is a way to give a good impression.
    So you should listen to incoherent babbling coming from people who haven't even hit level 30 yet? Bad strategy to make a game last.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Rift has gone through a few beta phases, which helped the developers fix bugs and balance classes according to feedback received. I am sure that not even 50% of all Beta players made 1 feedback ticket for the developers, so they had to go on personal play experiences and hopefully the other 50% of players who made the effort to comment on their game to improve/report bugs.

    The game has been out on Head start for net even a week yet, and already there are suggestions on how Rift Developers should change the game to suit everyone's personal needs.

    Can you honestly say you have experienced every aspect in the game in the 6 days Rift was released and you experienced every class/build at max level to comment on how classes should be nerfed/buffed?

    I suggest play the game first, before making comments to developers who have gone out of their way to provide a fantastic game.

    Madae, you are not offending anyone by saying what you've said, but it is really annoying when people make threads when they haven't a clue what it is actually about.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    If u expect to kill a cleric with healing souls 1v1 then u are a fool.
    If u expect to kill a cleric with healing souls in group pvp, without team work, then u are a fool.
    If u expect to kill a cleric with healing souls just by a straight dps, then again, u are a fool.
    Clerics were nerfed enough during beta phaces. Lets focus on the rogues now, please ^^
    And the OP is too arogant, so this topic need a big *padlock* :P

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminere View Post
    Rift has gone through a few beta phases, which helped the developers fix bugs and balance classes according to feedback received. I am sure that not even 50% of all Beta players made 1 feedback ticket for the developers, so they had to go on personal play experiences and hopefully the other 50% of players who made the effort to comment on their game to improve/report bugs.

    The game has been out on Head start for net even a week yet, and already there are suggestions on how Rift Developers should change the game to suit everyone's personal needs.

    Can you honestly say you have experienced every aspect in the game in the 6 days Rift was released and you experienced every class/build at max level to comment on how classes should be nerfed/buffed?

    I suggest play the game first, before making comments to developers who have gone out of their way to provide a fantastic game.

    Madae, you are not offending anyone by saying what you've said, but it is really annoying when people make threads when they haven't a clue what it is actually about.
    I completely agree

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Madae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminere View Post
    they haven't a clue what it is actually about.
    Now why would you think that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brambles View Post
    I completely agree
    Of course you do. We've already established that you're intolerant of people that don't agree with you.

  14. #14
    General of Telara Tugrath's Avatar
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    If I had a nickel for every time the target caller said 'kill the tank first' I'd have enough to get a drink of tap water.
    Don't mind me, I'm just being an idiot.

    What you did there, I see it.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Otiveht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madae View Post
    I seriously doubt anything I say will win over anyone when I say this, or that there is a good way to say it without everyone immediately jumping on it and telling me I'm wrong in a variety of ways, so I'm just going to say that I feel that healers of all types in this game need to be reworked and toned down - they are simply too powerful, and too numerous because of that fact.

    The customization afforded to players, while a great idea and something I truly like, will literally be the downfall of this game in my opinion if something is not done to balance it - and I'll admit that it's hard to do something like this effectively, especially in a game like this. Champions Online suffered from the same problem, and unfortunately their answer to fixing it was to completely change the game ala-SWG. I don't want to see that happen, but I also don't see people sticking it out in this game for the long term the way it is now.

    You can disagree all you want, but I know it will get tiresome and people will eventually quit playing because of this shortcoming. It happened in CO, and it will happen here. I really don't want that to happen, so please do something.
    Im glad healers are hard to kill, thats teh way it should be. Are there some tweeks needed in most classes/souls YES but they will come. This game has so many different options for the player "which is my favorite part" that they cant balance them all and they said they arnt going too. they will tune souls/tallents though. If your soul combination sucks, RESPEC your souls!!! i know its hard to understand.

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