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Thread: Defiant clerics (Please help!)

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Defiant clerics (Please help!)

    I want to make a cleric, but I am confused on the aspect of defiant clerics. Clerics tend to be holy men/women who believe and worship some divine power, but seeing how the Defiant's don't worship any form, how is it possible to portray a cleric? If someone could give me some examples per race to help me understand I would be grateful.

    Also, I am knew to the lore of Rift, and I have looked at the wiki, but still the answers elude me.
    Last edited by Kairios; 12-02-2012 at 07:16 AM.

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    Ascendant micshaz's Avatar
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    They're not supposed to be ascendant either as far as i know, i was under the assumption that Guardians recieved their Ascendant through religious means.

    Through the marvel of technology you're infused with the same powers, but then again what do i know i haven't read a single quest from 1 to 60 - i was looking for a thread to make fun of.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    I'm no RP'er but as I understand it, the defiants are just a collection of races that are not alligned with the vigil (gods)

    some possible examples of a defiant cleric could be worshiping a different god that isn't part of the vigil, technology (bahmi), or more likely, planar spirits as in the case of the kelari.

    the ember isle storyline for defiants is pretty much all about how the kelari form pacts with powerful spirits from the planes in order to survive. it might seem counterintuitive but not all entities from the planes are evil or aligned with the bloodstorm

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    Default Defiant Clerics

    Allow me to toss in my two cents...

    There are many ways to go about creating a Defiant cleric, and realistically, given a high enough population size, you'll find every school of thought possible. The difference between Defiant and Guardian is that the Defiant are much more open-minded about exploring other theological possibilities, while Guardians brand anything outside their doctrine as 'heretical.' The general school of thought is what is published in Trion's description of the Defiant...but not everybody goes with the general school of thought. That's the beauty of it...your cleric can be outside the norm if you want.

    One thing you could consider: a cleric draws their strength from their faith. That is the most basic, fundamental definition of a cleric. Now, as to what they place their faith in, that's the real question. Based on my own research into the lore, here are some possible sources of clerical power I've seen mentioned:
    (1) Ancestor spirits. Favored by many (but not all) Bahmi, worshiping one's ancestors grants you their wisdom, guidance, and strength.
    (2) Elemental spirits. Favored by many (but not all) Kelari, such spirits are often willing to grant powerful abilities in exchange for something they want. Bargains with spirits or demigods is a common way to obtain power.
    (3) The Vigil. Even the occasional Defiant can worship the Vigil, or just one god out of the Vigil. Not a common practice among "heretics," granted, but not impossible. You can be labeled a heretic while still believing in the "right" gods, if your teachings differ from the conventional teachings. For example, if you believe in the Vigil and their power, but think that their decree against using sourcestone was the result of a misinterpreted text and is not actually the edict of the gods.
    (4) Magitech. The Eth Empire used tech in almost every aspect of their lives. Perhaps you've uncovered a lost piece of ancient tech that augments abilities (or grants you new ones) that are similar to clerical abilities, without the need to prostrate yourself before another being.
    (5) Ascended souls. I've seen a couple different people post the idea that once the gods grant their favor on someone, that blessing is not removed, even in death. Therefore, regardless of how you obtained your Ascended souls, those souls came with the blessings required to grant clerical abilities. You may not believe in the same tenants as your predecessors, but you get to deal with the aftereffects.
    (6) Gods other than the Vigil. In a poly-theistic world, there can certainly be other lesser gods and demi-gods for your character to worship. Thus you still get your god's divine blessing and powers, and are still labeled a 'heretic' by the Guardian faction because you worship the 'wrong' god.
    As for the lore of the game...the main Rift homepage has a toolbar labeled World. Clicking or mousing over that gives you all sorts of resources into official game lore, with everything from the planes to notable historical figures to Telaran fables.
    Last edited by BMEgal; 12-03-2012 at 10:05 AM.
    "You haven't just crossed over to the Dark Side...you're baking the damn cookies!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by micshaz View Post
    They're not supposed to be ascendant either as far as i know, i was under the assumption that Guardians recieved their Ascendant through religious means.

    Through the marvel of technology you're infused with the same powers, but then again what do i know i haven't read a single quest from 1 to 60 - i was looking for a thread to make fun of.
    They are supposed to be Ascended. It's just a Defiant Ascended is artificially created via the Resurrection Forge, while a Guardian Ascended is created through the divine power of the Vigil. While the method of Ascension is different the end result is the same---an Ascended being with the capacity to house multiple souls, drawing upon the powers and abilities of each soul, with a particular resistance to perma-death.
    "You haven't just crossed over to the Dark Side...you're baking the damn cookies!"

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    Prophet of Telara FoxMaiden's Avatar
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    Kelari and Bahmi are more animist/shamanistic I believe, so theres that route. There's also the druidic route, you don't necessarily have to RP a priest of Tavril to play a druid. Nimhue my dwarf druid is RPed as one, though she doesnt necessarily venerate Tavril. I went with a more shinto/ancestor type of druid. I remember reading somewhere that there are numerous little gods in Telara, but the big 5 are the Vigil.
    :: Ceileigh Amberlight - Dwarf Engineer :: Nimhue Amberlight - Dwarf Druid :: Faeblight ::


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    Ascendant tro44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kairios View Post
    I want to make a cleric, but I am confused on the aspect of defiant clerics. Clerics tend to be holy men/women who believe and worship some divine power, but seeing how the Defiant's don't worship any form, how is it possible to portray a cleric? If someone could give me some examples per race to help me understand I would be grateful.

    Also, I am knew to the lore of Rift, and I have looked at the wiki, but still the answers elude me.
    you have a wrong understanding.

    Defiant believe in religion, they just dont follow the Vigil which the Guardians do.

    Also keep in mind how the Soul System works.

    Ascendent hold and use the souls of heroes of the past. This means, they gain the past skill and knowledge of those past heroes.

    Thats why Defiant cant be Ascendent. They can collect souls and use the skill of that past hero.

    This still doesnt mean they dont believe in certain religions. Go to Ember Isle to see Defiant Elfs and their nature religious views.

    Lets Go Rift. Hope Archeage can do something next. Lets Save Rift

  8. #8
    Ascendant Crithappens's Avatar
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    The Kelari practice spirit worship and the Bahmi practice ancestor worship.

    If you read up on the lore the very first Warden was a Kelari and the very first Purifier was a Bahmi.

    As far as Eth Clerics... that's the only one that I have trouble making sense of lore-wise. However, it's been shown that the Vigil is NOT the only source of "Divine" power. The Eth could simply be using similar methods to what they've learned from the Kelari and harnessing the power of spirits.
    Last edited by Crithappens; 12-19-2012 at 06:12 AM.
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    Sword of Telara Shibi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kairios View Post
    I want to make a cleric, but I am confused on the aspect of defiant clerics.
    The Defiants are machine created ascended. Souls were plucked out of living guardians leaving their dead husks and used to create you so that you could go back in time and work to save Telara.

    The easiest way to progress from that point is to consider just one of the souls extracted and used on you was a cleric. This easily explains your skill in Light.

    Moderated by the others and also your original physical self the skills of the cleric were the strongest and that soul had "more points" put into it then the rogue that also got slipped in there.

    But the dead and resurrected defiant, the one who holds all these extracted Guardians inside them, has now in effect become a cleric.

    They no longer believe in the vigil but the skills and powers are not diminished. They are still that dead person, filled with other's souls and skills.

    The skills we born in a strong belief and worship of the vigil, but one does not need to continue that to retain the power.

    In my case as a defiler, I have a conflict, I have an existence that uses necrotic skills to perform the work of a cleric. Whilst not believing in the vigil or any higher force outside th planes itself I have the ability to use the death plane to draw hurt from others into my being and then use the brilliance of cleric light to purge that necrotic energy and leave myself painless.

    I no longer havethe ability to directly use light o others though. The only way I heal and protect is by taking on their pain myself, leaving them healed and cured as I struggle with their afflictions.

    My light is just not strong enough in the mix of souls I have to do it directly.
    Last edited by Shibi; 12-29-2012 at 03:49 AM.
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  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    Another scenerio in Terminus is the one of the capturing of original souls with a soul net, bringing these souls down to be infused into a sourcestone created body, with the ability to hold other souls.

    In the Boar Spear tale again, there is this, which I read as Hugo, through his journeys as an ascended, came across souls that infused themselves within him, giving him their abilities and memories.

    "Next to her stood a girl, also barefoot and just out of her teens, who would have been pretty if her eyes weren’t hard and cold as a bullet to the gut. She wore only a nightgown, which billowed along with her soft brown hair, and carried an ancient-looking rifle. I seemed to recall an old wives’ tale about a girl from Iron Pine who’d gunned down the Storm Legion detachment that raided her village.

    “This is Gisa,” said the winged apparition, pointing one blade at the girl. “The enemies of the gods fall to her as ants beneath a hailstorm.”

    “Learn my secrets, Boar Spear,” said Gisa. “Watch your enemies die from a distance.”

    “Much as I love murder-by-panorama, I have a swiftly-decomposing corpse to reoccupy. No time to train,” I said.

    Gisa just smiled and stepped into me, her ghost dissolving in mine like sugar in tea. Her memories surged through me—though thankfully without the image of myself standing barefoot in a slip, shooting Legionaries.

    As she imprinted herself on me, I reached out to my corpse. Flesh fell away from it, painting itself over my spirit, bones filling me out like sticks in a tent. Flexing my hands, I heard the receding thunder of massive wings."

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    Rift Chaser Eylisia's Avatar
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    In an much earlier post the followed a very similar path, I had this to say regarding Defiant Clerics...

    When considering the roles of the Gods for Defiants and Guardians, I think it's necessary to consider some other possibilities.

    In a completely unrelated peice of work (see link) the world is split into two factions, both have their own beliefs, yet both have the same powers as each other. Why? Because the Gods are playing a game with them.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Five

    I see it as a possibility that the Vigil, knowing that Defiant technology would eventually be capable of creating Ascended of their own, are playing the two factions off against each other on purpose as a way to create a strong defence against Regulos. What better way to weed out weak ascended than to have them fight each other, only to reveal at the last shining moment that it was all part of the master plan in the fight to save Telera. Survival of the fittest and all that jazz.

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