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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: RPing Defiants in Argent Glade? RPing Gaurdians In Freemarch?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Rosalia's Avatar
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    Default RPing Defiants in Argent Glade? RPing Gaurdians In Freemarch?

    Is there a way for that to happen without anyone running up and killing you? I think it'd be fun to RP in the other starting area!

  2. #2
    Ascendant Talila's Avatar
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    It might be fun, but it makes no sense lorewise.
    I don't want to butcher your idea, so I will say that it -could- with a lot of skill be pulled off, if you use the right amount of disguise. A bahmi in Argent Glade would not really be viable at all, where as an eth has more options.
    Kelari's purple skincolor kind of busts them on the spot.
    Overtaking AG for example and killing the guards wouldn't really work out either, seeing as Argent Glade is very very close to Sanctum and well. Attacking anything that close to a fresh supply of various sorts of Zealots might not be the brightest idea.

    The reason why I speak so strongly for this is because I personally am sick and tired of people not giving any effort into at least doing it properly when they feel the need to be in the opposing factions tavern.
    What often happens is that they get busted by other guardians (because let's face it, you really can't hide the fact if you are a bahmi) and then the people pulls the immunity card by oocly disagreeing to any kind of consequence of the situation. Logically the moment a defiant is spotted within guardian territory, the reaction wouldn't exactly "Good to see you old pal!" but more like a hammer to the face, depending on which guardian you cross.

    What you need to consider when you do something like this is if you are willing to take the consequence if you are busted, knowing that the consequence may lead to your characters captivity and thus rendering the character rather unfit for roleplay, and that if you do not agree to these things but choose to do it anyway, you force the guardian rp'ers to go out of their shoes to either ignore or make sense of the situation.
    In my opinion, good roleplay is not just about getting your way, but also to make sure that what you do doesn't cause other people to break their character (an example of this could be for an extreme zealous character to be completely alright with the presence of a defiant, even though their entire character concept involves chasing defiants and greeting them with a hammer)

    Now technicually speaking, there are guards in stonefield to kick us guardians behinds if we stand about too long, but AG has several ways of simply passing the guards as per game mechanic.

    So yeah, that's my two silvers on the matter.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Rosalia's Avatar
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    I was mainly asking because I do see quite a few Bahmi and Eth in AG (not so many Kelari, they must have better things to do! lol) and a few High Elves roaming about the March.

    Now that I think about it, it does seem a bit hard to RP a Defiants purpose in AG or a a Guardians' purpose in the March.

    But it may come out interesting if someone was able to do it.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Annalea's Avatar
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    I would say it's definitely something that has alot of potential to be fun (and on Harrow, my charater did RP primarily in Meridian). However, it is something I would like to say is quite an advanced field of roleplay. It puts your character in constant conflict one way or another with the populace and, like Talila mentions, consequence is always something to consider. Those two things, conflict and consequence, are why I say it's something advanced.

    On one hand, you'll need to deal with the consequences for your character being there. First of all, is your character actually a Defiant? Or are they simply a race affiliated with the Defiant? What are the consequences of being so close to Sanctum as such a race? On the other hand, you'll need to deal with people who don't understand consequences for their own character. It's perhaps a subtle distinction, but I have seen many people think as such:

    I am a Guardian in Silverwood. Therefore, if I try to kill/capture this Defiant, I cannot lose and nothing bad will happen to my character.
    In my experience, that is where the majority of OOC arguments stem from. People demand that YOUR character face consequences, but don't think that their own actions bear a similar weight. That's a difficult one to deal with without breaking character.

    Also, because of that constant atmosphere of potential conflict, you very much run the risk of repeating the same scenario over and over, ad nauseum. On Faeblight, that is what I most often see from cross-faction RP in Guardian territory. A Defiant wants a drink at the bar. A Guardian wants to smash the Defiant's face in. You want to be very careful of not turning your storyline into a broken record.

    That all said, some of my favourite roleplay sessions on Annalea have come from roleplaying her in Meridian. It was a long-term, ongoing story she was part of there. One that I treated as a diplomatic challenge for the character that saw a good deal of negotiations, philosophical debates, and the occasional bit of violence against her (she, however, was a pacifist and never fought back). The end result was that she was eventually accepted by the leaders of the major guilds... though, even then it was a wary acceptance. Many kept their eye on her and her actions and some even maintained their hostilities.

    All in all, it was a very detailed, in-depth and vibrant scenario with multiple dimensions. Then the server's population tanked and we had to transfer to Faeblight and, thus, all that was essentially wiped clean, forcing me to start from scratch! So, I just went back to Argent Glade.
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  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Rosalia's Avatar
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    It's mainly the 50s in AG that make the Rping hard. The minute they come in they'll boss the Defiant out. I don't see anyone bothering the High Elves who roam the March too much.

    The one scenario I saw in AG that looked sort of fun was (IC): A Defiant was holding a Guardian Guild Member Hostage and they wanted a gold MAthosian with information on something in exchange for the Guild members' safety.

    I never really saw what happened after that but I thought it was a cool idea.

    And is it just me or are people crueler to the Kelari? My Kelari was barely in AG for 5 minutes before level 50players started multiplying and one 'escorted' my toon out of town.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    I am a Defiant. If I was ever going to go to AG to RP I would flag, simple. We are, currently at least, in a state of war according to the lore and I should accept the consequences of my actions.

    Also according to the lore one could easily argue that f I was caught consorting with the enemy I could be penalized. Now this of course creates interesting story possibilities BUT might I suggest those stories are far more appropriate for Scarlet Gorge and up in terms of progression? Those areas are jointly held by each faction and so the possibilities of interacting (especially when you get to say IPP or Shimmer sand would be easier and would raise FAR less suspicion than someone doing the Mentos double take when the see the dwarf and Bahmi cavorting together in AG lol.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Plane Touched Akamhara's Avatar
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    If was to play a Defiant, because I'm a complete nerdhat, I'd probably go about it thusly:

    Have people in Argent Glade to begin with - I'm coming for roleplay, so there's no point waiting for people to come in. If you know these people, this is probably better than randoms.

    Roleplay the stealth of it - masks, hoods, whatever would work for me without turning me into Dr Doom. If I'm there for a hostile thing, I'll emote my stealth if I employ it, and I'll do so from a bush or a point of shadow, not just in the middle of the street.

    When I talk to others, I might include an accent, if there is such a thing, in the emotes, for an Eth perhaps. If I'm playing a hostile Defiant who is looking for information, I would avoid such phrases as "I killed the guards, shut up or I'll do it to you", or "I paid the guards off, what's your problem". What I ~might~ say if a Guardian challenged me, was "I'm a merchant, my good man, up from Fortune's Shore - so tell me, what's good in these parts?".

    I might go for an assassination on the understanding there's a very strong chance my character will be stabbed repeatedly by the target's friends.

    The thing about Argent Glade is that it's a Guardian territory - you have a college full of trainee mages and clerics right there, guards dotted about the place, a tavern, and a marketplace. You have to fill in the blanks with the NPCs if you're not readily convinced it's a town.

    HOWEVER. That's just Argent Glade. Silverwood itself is a large forest, and all sorts of meetings can be had there. Same for Freemarch. The zone itself is still guardian or defiant, but your hostile encounters or whatever you like are less encumbered by NPC populations etc.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Rosalia's Avatar
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    Basically from what all of you are say is 'Location, Location, Location!' and making sure I don't go OOC or make anyone else go OOC. And to have a good plot/reason for being there.

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    Rift Chaser Annalea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Now this of course creates interesting story possibilities BUT might I suggest those stories are far more appropriate for Scarlet Gorge and up in terms of progression? Those areas are jointly held by each faction and so the possibilities of interacting (especially when you get to say IPP or Shimmer sand would be easier and would raise FAR less suspicion than someone doing the Mentos double take when the see the dwarf and Bahmi cavorting together in AG lol.
    The trouble with this idea is really one that's quite simple. We are basically limited by the game and its population in this regard. We, naturally, want to roleplay and don't want to wait a long time to find some roleplay. Thus, we tend to meet up in certain spots, like Argent Glade.

    If you go to a cross-faction area, you will run into a Defiant/Guardian on occasion that'll stop and roleplay with you. But it's sporadic at best.

    If Telara were real, certainly. You could go to one of these spots and meet up with someone! But, sadly, we are limited by our population.
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    the thing is though it takes SO little time to level it isn't even funny. I would get this if Scarlet Gorge, Scarwood, Moonshade and Droughtlands didn't exist (leveling does slow down there a little bit) BUT look at the sotry too.

    You rolled a Defiant. (as an example) while you may evolve as a character as you play unless you ignore your entire time at terminus you are coming back to a place where you see the Guardians as murderers who slaughtered those in Meridian and basically trapped your people in a cave. From the Definant Future on the official time line....

    Defiant Future:

    8 years after present day: Meridian is sacked by the Guardians. The surviving Defiants hole up within well fortified life factories to continue trying to solve the trouble of Ascension with machines.

    14 years after present day: Orphiel disappears without a trace.

    20 years after present day: Sylver Valis discovers the means to creating Ascended with machines. These new Defiants are sent back to try to avert the disaster they witness as they escape through the Failsafe to the past.
    As I said you may evolve to "lets try and mend bridges" but when you are level 10 there is no way in heaven or heck you want to break bread with these cats, it simply makes no sense. heck since it is 20 years in the future, unless you are purposefully playing an old character you were likely too young to know a time when the Guardians were NOT trying to kill your people. Now once you have progressed to a certain point a personal story can indeed lead you to wanting to break bread with the opposite faction and with even casual game play (6 hours a week) simply by following quest lines and doing invasions you can be in joint zones in about 2 weeks or less.

    So in waiting you not only make logical sense with the lore (if your character is in the 30 odd year old range or less) but you also are not destroying other players immersion and that is my main problem with this. When I get on my guardian alt and am in AG (he spends a lot of time there since he is a mage) I get genuinely pissed off when I see Defiant in the tavern standing by the fire having a drink and flirting with a Guardian. I can't flag and attack them because they won't flag, I can't call the guards on them for them to be arrested and interrogated, I am left to have my suspension of disbelief shattered because someone is where they absolutely should not be to just kick back and have a drink making small talk because the lore and factions be damned they want to roleplay.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Annalea's Avatar
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    Gal, you seem to be using game mechanics not made for roleplay as a means to dictate roleplay.
    • Using levels to dictate a character.
    • Using the quest storyline to dictate a character.
    • Using PvP mechanics to dictate an outcome.

    Levels don't make sense to use. They're a game mechanic and nothing more, as they don't really reflect anything about your character. Their age, their beliefs, their experiences... these are all things that are not covered by levels and I simply do not believe in their usage. Plenty of people will say that they're a key factor in determining who has a more powerful character roleplay-wise. I would contest this, as they are nothing more than a sign of your time spent playing the game... and not anything born from a roleplay perspective.

    The quest storyline is nice. Using it to dictate every character RP-wise, however, is not. Not all Defiant need to be the first Defiant to wake up in Terminus (or, even in Terminus at all) and not all Guardians need to be the Ascended who killed the Avatar of Regulos. This is similar in distinction to the above point about level - the storyline doesn't necessarily need to have any bearing on your character. Your character may not be even be a Defiant or a Guardian... or even need be an Ascended. You can, by all means, to choose that your character follows the storyline closely. You cannot, however, demand everyone to do the same.

    PvP mechanics are another popular means of determining character power. Again, this does not make sense from a roleplay perspective. PvP was created to add a different layer to the game experience and, while I believe it can help influence it, I don't believe it is a good indicator for roleplay. When you PvP with someone, it's no longer about your character and your character's skillset and knowledge... it's about you and your ability in PvP. I think that's an important distinction to make. When you PvP against someone, your options for roleplay are instantly limited. It's a mechanic that does not highlight your character's abilities and limits some meaningful roleplay that could come from it. If both parties agree that PvP is the quickest and easiest way of determining something - by all means, use it. But if there's an disagreement, roleplay will have to suffice.

    To use your example of a Defiant in the tavern, flirting with a Guardian... if you're going OOC and are 'genuinely pissed off' over this, then you should probably take a break and calm down. Roleplay with them, go about it in an investigative manner. If you feel your character needs to eject their character, always ask: "What are the consequences of my doing this?". In your example, you may successfully eject the person. Or, he may turn around, three of his friends run in and they hogtie your character and take you to Meridian. Whenever you enter conflict, there is no one-way street to a specific outcome.

    If, however, the Defiant is openly telling everyone how they've murdered every Guard in Argent Glade and are the shazbot or something and then refuse to enter in meaningful roleplay with your character... that can certainly be a bit of a pain. But that's going to happen with both Defiants and Guardians. Some roleplayers simply put more thought and effort into their characters than others. The best thing is to just remove yourself from the scenario.
    Abbess, Petals of Mariel-Taun
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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    So in essence you believe in metagaming when it is convenient to your personal purposes.

    You can not divorce game mechanics from RP anymore than you could when our only manner of roleplay was Pen and Paper. I could not simply say my level 1 Cleric in AD and D could go forth and slay and ancient dragon. I had to work the character to that point. These games are no different in that regard.

    Additionally I could not just start saying that my human cleric could go and hang out in the land of the Dark Elves unless the story permitted me to do so (either by GM fiat or by the actual source books used.)

    The minute you say "hey the story a given is nice but if for the interest of my personal story I need to ignore it so be it" you are metagaming. You can rationalize it as much as you wish but the minute your personal story requires other to ignore the story as written by Trion you metagame period and that is what a low level defiant drinking an ale in argent glade does.
    Last edited by Galibier; 03-15-2012 at 08:47 AM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    I enjoy adversarial roleplay, but I also think there is a time and a place for it. I don't believe the place for Defiants is in the Blunted Quill, roleplaying that Davek is their best friend and he's serving up drinks.

    I also understand the argument that 'mechanics' shouldn't dictate -all- roleplay. But, I think people need to look at a combination of lore and mechanics and use that to make logical in-character choices.

    - Mechanically, a Defiant can't order a drink from Davek.
    - Mechanically, Davek goes bonkers crazy when a Defiant patrol walks behind the tavern, and starts spewing out comments like, "Get them! Kill them! Beware the lazers!" -- as he's running out to take them on with his bare fists.
    - Lore wise, Argent Glade is smack dab in the middle of Pro-Guardian/Anti-Defiant territory. Just down the road, Guardians are lobbing bombs at every single Defiant head poking up out of the water.

    Roleplaying in a game with a backstory and supporting lore is very much like coloring in a color book. You can pick what color you use, you can make your flowers yellow and your sun blue, but you still need to color within the lines. Otherwise, you're just scribbling.

    There's neutral territory and contested territory to have cross-faction roleplay in. But to have -friendly- -open- roleplay in closed territories can be rather immersion breaking. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy and tit-for-tat with Defiants who come in disguised. And, I think sneaking around and spying, or emoting from somewhere outside the tavern is *awesome*, but Davek isn't a Defiant's friendly neighborhood bartender.

    I've never roleplayed in Freemarch, but, if Guardians are going that side and pretending like all is great and we're just a big circle of fantastic buddies who hug and air kiss, then, I say that's equally wrong. We shouldn't ignore the storyline and the lore, since they are the lines that shape the coloring book and provide the cohesive set of rules we all should play by.

    Rift is not a free-form RPG.

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  14. #14
    Ascendant Talila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    So in essence you believe in metagaming when it is convenient to your personal purposes.

    You can not divorce game mechanics from RP anymore than you could when our only manner of roleplay was Pen and Paper. I could not simply say my level 1 Cleric in AD and D could go forth and slay and ancient dragon. I had to work the character to that point. These games are no different in that regard.

    Additionally I could not just start saying that my human cleric could go and hang out in the land of the Dark Elves unless the story permitted me to do so (either by GM fiat or by the actual source books used.)

    The minute you say "hey the story a given is nice but if for the interest of my personal story I need to ignore it so be it" you are metagaming. You can rationalize it as much as you wish but the minute your personal story requires other to ignore the story as written by Trion you metagame period and that is what a low level defiant drinking an ale in argent glade does.
    I highly doubt anyone that's the least bit serious about ones RP completely ignores the story written by Trion.
    However in the case with for example terminus, it's well established in the questline that -one- defiant gets through the time machine with the blueprints to create more ascended (which is shown by Sylvar as he changes from researching into creating ascended to research other matters)
    Furthermore all of the quests highly describe this -one- great ascended who is running around saving we world. We can't all be that person, we can't all use that story - but we can create stories that are in tune with the setting. This is called verisimiltude - essentially roleplaying within the realism of a fictive universe.

    If someone goes ahead and makes a bahmi vampie/werewolf mix that hangs out in the Argent glade inn being social, that's not within the lore, and that is very much ignoring the story and the setting. It's also commonly refered to as lol-rp. All in all it's very different from what those who sit and create stories for their character who plan on using them for serious RP.

    Also, there ARE types of RP (there's more than one type) who include levels, in-game mechanics, etc.
    That's also the type of RP that tends to use duels rather than emote fights, or roll-emote fights.

    Then there's the type of RP where in-game mechanics are used more as a guidance, those who follow it tend to not rp directly by the quest-lines, they tend to use emote-fights, and so on. What the quests say are used as a guideline, for example if a quest mentions that it's common to drink a specific sort of bevrage at a certain event, then we use that as game lore, but we don't believe that we are -the one- great ascended saving the world, nor personally talking with the major lore characters.

    The two types generally don't mix, and it's very much up to people to find the way they prefer. You can't say that one way is more right than the other either, they pretty much co-exist and are the result of different types of server envirionments throughout many many games. As far as I've seen the first way I mentioned tends to be more dominant on RP-PvP realms, and the latter on RP-PvE so that's generally what I tend to call the two ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myuriel View Post
    I've never roleplayed in Freemarch, but, if Guardians are going that side and pretending like all is great and we're just a big circle of fantastic buddies who hug and air kiss, then, I say that's equally wrong. We shouldn't ignore the storyline and the lore, since they are the lines that shape the coloring book and provide the cohesive set of rules we all should play by.
    Oh they do, in fact they sometimes go all the way into Meridian by the tent and the like causing themselves to auto-flag. At that point in time my characters flag up and kill them.

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