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Thread: The lore hits too close to home

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default The lore hits too close to home

    Hi Rift community, I just caught wind of the closed beta yesterday from Gamestop, and I've been looking around while I wait to miss out on the beta.

    I like the way this game is looking, but the Guardians vs the Defiant thing might not be my cup of tea. So far, it feels too much like real-life culture wars between, say, parapsychology and organized skepticism or organized religion vs secularism. I deal with these ugly wars in real life and I don't know if I want to deal with reflections of them in a game world.

    I want a simple war betwen simple factions based on something simple like geography and resource availability, not metaphysics and theology! Ya'know, simple stuff. I get enough of the Gods in real life...I don't want them in my game too. Divine drama is what I want to escape from in a game...and the Gods aren't making it easy.

    Plus, the nature of the lore seems likely to imbalance the community. "The Defiant" sounds cool and so that's where the hardcore minmaxers and wannabe anti-heroes will probably go. I don't jive well with those kinds of gamer, and so there we have another consequence of the lore compelling me to join Guardians. I don't want to be drafted. I want both factions to appeal to all kinds of gamers with all kinds of philosophical and psychological dispositions. Each faction must be its own coincidentia oppositorum. But so far it feels like each faction is merely one side of a single coin. Yin has a bit of yang in it and vice-versa, but where is the Guardian in the Defiant? Where is the Defiant in the Guardian?

    I don't feel like I have the psychological freedom to play Defiant because of my own spirituality and my own social activism, and because of the kind of gamers that the Defiant seems likely to attract. I wonder if Richard Dawkins would feel free to play a Guardian and to be a part of the Guardian community, or if he would feel psychological or social pressure to play a Defiant? Could he play without psychologically projecting aspects of his real-life atheism vs theism culture war onto the game? Maybe such an obvious parallel would be his idea of fun but I don't know if I would feel that way. I think I would prefer my parallels to be less direct.
    Last edited by Limb0; 12-04-2010 at 07:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Master
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    ...get a grip, its a game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limb0 View Post
    Hi Rift community, I just caught wind of the closed beta yesterday from Gamestop, and I've been looking around while I wait to miss out on the beta.

    I like the way this game is looking, but the Guardians vs the Defiant thing might not be my cup of tea. So far, it feels too much like real-life culture wars between, say, parapsychology and organized skepticism or organized religion vs secularism. I deal with these ugly wars in real life and I don't know if I want to deal with reflections of them in a game world.

    I want a simple war betwen simple factions based on something simple like geography and resource availability, not metaphysics and theology! Ya'know, simple stuff. I get enough of the Gods in real life...I don't want them in my game too. Divine drama is what I want to escape from in a game...and the Gods aren't making it easy.

    Plus, the nature of the lore seems likely to imbalance the community. "The Defiant" sounds cool and so that's where the hardcore minmaxers and wannabe anti-heroes will probably go. I don't jive well with those kinds of gamer, and so there we have another consequence of the lore compelling me to join Guardians. I don't want to be drafted. I want both factions to appeal to all kinds of gamers with all kinds of philosophical and psychological dispositions. Each faction must be its own coincidentia oppositorum. But so far it feels like each faction is merely one side of a single coin. Yin has a bit of yang in it and vice-versa, but where is the Guardian in the Defiant? Where is the Defiant in the Guardian?

    I don't feel like I have the psychological freedom to play Defiant because of my own spirituality and my own social activism, and because of the kind of gamers that the Defiant seems likely to attract. I wonder if Richard Dawkins would feel free to play a Guardian and to be a part of the Guardian community, or if he would feel psychological or social pressure to play a Defiant? Could he play without psychologically projecting aspects of his real-life atheism vs theism culture war onto the game? Maybe such an obvious parallel would be his idea of fun but I don't know if I would feel that way. I think I would prefer my parallels to be less direct.

    At the end of the day it comes down to this: if you don't like the lore, and that's a big thing for you, don't play the game. However, I can see why that might be annoying for you, because the game does look so good; and to have the lore spoil that for you must be infuriating.

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    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bursh View Post
    At the end of the day it comes down to this: if you don't like the lore, and that's a big thing for you, don't play the game. However, I can see why that might be annoying for you, because the game does look so good; and to have the lore spoil that for you must be infuriating.
    Yeah, it is. I just don't see how I could possibly avoid projecting my own psyche onto the game, since the Gods are a big part of my life. I guess you could say I'm sort of like an urban shaman. It feels a little awkward to play a game which shamans are portrayed. Seeing shamans portrayed in various things, I am usually either offended by ignorant portrayals or weirded out by accurate portrayals. Either way I don't usually like it.

    And to have the Gods, such a potent force in my real-life, be THE dividing line between the factions in game-life adds yet another dimension of difficulty. I don't know if I would enjoy it.

    I don't anticipate such a difficulty with SWTOR. I think I'll just wait for that.
    Last edited by Limb0; 12-04-2010 at 08:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limb0 View Post
    Yeah, it is. I just don't see how I could possibly avoid projecting my own psyche onto the game, since the Gods are a big part of my life. I guess you could say I'm sort of like an urban shaman. It feels a little awkward to play a game which shamans are portrayed. Seeing shamans portrayed in various things, I am usually either offended by ignorant portrayals or weirded out by accurate portrayals. Either way I don't usually like it.

    And to have the Gods, such a potent force in my real-life, be THE dividing line between the factions in game-life adds yet another dimension of difficulty. I don't know if I would enjoy it.

    I don't anticipate such a difficulty with SWTOR. I think I'll just wait for that.
    Perhaps you could play the game as game, and pay as little attention to the lore as possible? I know I'll probably end up not paying attention to the lore.

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    Rift Disciple hinhanska's Avatar
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    My only regret is there are only 2 sides. I'm still looking for a good MMO with multiple factions that all have their own carebear land and contested areas.

    It always seems to be A against B in MMO's.
    -=[ I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living. ]=-

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    Rift Disciple Fuzionite's Avatar
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    Wow. Really?

    Defiant simply don't want to rely on the Gods, they would rather use forbidden technology.
    Gaurdians are the opposite.

    Simple as that, religious or not it's down to core individuality. This is an MMORPG, put yourself into your characters shoes and create a different completely new persona, and let THEM make the decision.

    Also it's just a game...
    Reborn - Hardcore EU Raiders

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    Soulwalker PrincessPepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bursh View Post
    Perhaps you could play the game as game, and pay as little attention to the lore as possible? I know I'll probably end up not paying attention to the lore.
    Agreed. It's for fun, recreation ya know. No need to project yourself fully into a pixelized character.

    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bursh View Post
    Perhaps you could play the game as game, and pay as little attention to the lore as possible? I know I'll probably end up not paying attention to the lore.
    I will try it if given the chance. Beta meh!

    Imagine a game in which the two factions were Republicans and Democrats. American politicians and political activists might have a problem playing it without real-life politics interfering with their game experience. It's the same sort of thing for me as a mystic. I have a hard time playing games that are too religion centered. Either the ignorant caricatures and kindergarten theology offend me, or the synchronicities weird me out. I'm sick of both.
    Last edited by Limb0; 12-04-2010 at 03:14 PM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Delith's Avatar
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    I'm not religious in the slightest, and yet I will Roleplay a very, very religious cleric/priest in most games. What it comes down to is your ability to be separate from the character you are creating, and recognizing that it is fiction and while one could detect similarities, there are a lot of different facets in an MMO world, and in a real life one. Finding that line is important, especially for a Roleplayer but also for anyone who tends to be immersed.

    Would you read a book with a fictional religious war and enjoy it? I find that even if I dislike a certain behavior or concept in the real world, a fictional version can be exciting.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Xandor's Avatar
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    Seriously? I'm very religious. Its how everything in my life is based, but this is just a game man.
    White, Straight, christian, Male. How else can I piss you off today?

  12. #12
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    OP is overthinking.

    Weird for me to say this, since lore is my favorite part...

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    Prophet of Telara Jorun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinhanska View Post
    My only regret is there are only 2 sides. I'm still looking for a good MMO with multiple factions that all have their own carebear land and contested areas.

    It always seems to be A against B in MMO's.
    War is war whether it's between 2 or more neighbors fighting over fences or two or more countries. War is War any way you cut it.

    However, in RIFT there are more than 2 sides. There are 8 and they are all fighting each other. How many do you want in a game? In RIFT, some are in planes, some on land/water. In time, ones on land/water will also be in planes. Currently, some in planes are also on land/water. Some in planes also fight each other on land.

    And yeah, tons of contested - all over the place. But if you don't care for this sorta thing, there's a game somewhere you will like - maybe.

    For someone who claims they want simplicity, you sure are making a lot of complexities over things not in evidence.
    Last edited by Jorun; 12-04-2010 at 07:32 PM.


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    Rift Disciple Aeneas's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry to much about the lore man. From my experience the lore reallllyy doesn't matter. Maybe i'm wrong though. But they are pretty much like the trailers you see for games. Like WoW cataclysm for example the trailer looks awesome! The game won't be like that though. Same with the lore really. Just my 2 cents

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeneas View Post
    I wouldn't worry to much about the lore man. From my experience the lore reallllyy doesn't matter. Maybe i'm wrong though. But they are pretty much like the trailers you see for games. Like WoW cataclysm for example the trailer looks awesome! The game won't be like that though. Same with the lore really. Just my 2 cents
    The lore matters to me. Using World of Warcraft is a terrible example.

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