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Thread: Enough with the Defiant Lore!!!!

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Aieru's Avatar
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    Default Enough with the Defiant Lore!!!!

    Whereas I love to hear about Telaran lore and really, really want more so that I can create my Rift character to be as 'true to the lore as possible without being hand-held'... I'm really, really getting annoyed at the plethora of Defiant lore and absolutely NO Guardian lore.
    Really guys, tell me that you have worked out some great Guardian lore that is not simply: Guardians are religious zealots.

    Whereas that being a faction of the Guardians is expected and would be cool- I do NOT want the entire faction to be mandated to be that way. I do NOT want to hear that ALL Guardian PC's are:
    - technophobes
    - blind zealots
    - religious automatons
    - judgmental, hateful, merciless beings.

    That is not only offensive to people (IRL) that have religious beliefs at all (aka all 'people of faith are...*see above*), but boring, two-dimensional, unrealistic and frankly.... disappointingly lacking in creativeness. On top of being grossly unattractive.

    Please- balance the scales, developers.
    Give the Guardians 'fair play' and attention. Help us as players to REALLY have a very valid and legit choice to make when we choose a faction to play and a character to devote our time and attention to.
    Make Guardian as attractive to players as you've made the Defiant.


    Again- I am NOT slamming the developers, the lore, or anything about this game. I think what you guys have created here is really great and insightful.... for the Defiant side. All I ask is that you do a bit of quid pro quo for the Guardians.
    Lay off the Defiant focus for a bit and show us a bit of Guardian love.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Aieru; 11-03-2010 at 01:58 AM.

  2. #2
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    That is not only offensive to people (IRL) that have religious beliefs at all (aka all 'people of faith are...*see above*)
    That's just nonsense. And hey, how about the inquisition and the Crusades? Rift's lore is taking it easy compared to RL history.

    Anyway, the Vigil's existence is fact, undeniable. Their intervention and saving of Telara in the past is also undeniable. The Defiant are trying to combat gods of Bloodstorm with their own power? What kind of nonsense is that, they don't even stand a chance. The only ones who can are the Vigil and they have saved is before, they have a plan for saving us now, turning their backs on them is nothing short of treason. But maybe the Defiant just don't wish for this order, maybe Orphiel just wants to claim the world for himself, using those forbidden machines, that could as well be the end of Telara if the Dragon Cults lay their hands on them. The Defiant take the advantage of this war and chaos to take over and usurp the throne of Telara.

    How does that sound?

    And are they really focusing on the Defiant? Sure, I think there is a bit more info for those, but the overall amount of lore is lacking, there isn't much to put on the scales.
    Last edited by Shinimas; 11-03-2010 at 02:45 AM.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Aieru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinimas View Post
    That's just nonsense. And hey, how about the inquisition and the Crusades? Rift's lore is taking it easy compared to RL history.
    I agree. That's my point.
    The Crusades/Inquisition/Salem Witch Trial/ Jihad/etc etc etc all (and are still occurring) in Earth history, and by having Telara reflect a portion of that is FINE. Having such a 'faction within a faction' is awesome.
    But that is not the ENTIRETY of the beliefs of all 'religious folks.' (note I did not say 'Christians'. There is no IG correlation between Christianity and the Vigil (polytheism afterall- more like Greek, Roman or Hindu beliefs than Christianity). I said 'religious believers' in general. Yes, the Defiant might 'know' the Vigil is out there, but that is not the same as 'believing' in them.)

    My only request is that the entire faction not be relegated to adhering to a minute sub-set belief.
    One can believe in the Vigil- but not be all inquisitorial and zealots.

    And yes, lore overall is severely lacking. I want more. I just want some attention given to the Guardians.
    Last edited by Aieru; 11-03-2010 at 04:44 AM.

  4. #4
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Starseeker's Avatar
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    I kinda agree with this, although I don't overly care how the Guardians are portrayed in relation to the vigil since I will play my character how i want to play it.

    But, I am disappointed at the lack of deep guardian lore. It seems since i've been watching this game, they've talked about asha and orpheil, Asha has her own comic, the defiant were there at the end of telara and time traveled back...there's little to no stories about guardians, or what they are doing. Yes, I know the boar spear (great story) is a guardian. but what I mean is our leaders have no history, no story they are just there, and we are supposed to care about them?

    I really am intrigued by the Guardian faction, and it's what my guild wants to play. But it is hard to feel like you are part of a story when your side is left in the dark and you don't know any of the story besides "You worship the vigil, and were brought back by them to save telara" well..ok but who is Cyril? who is our leader, why is he there, what is the guardians goals as a whole, what are the stories behind the guardians, flesh out those characters too. I know we still have a long ways to go till release, but I suppose it gets to the point where your like "oh more defiant lore." Least it does withe me.
    Last edited by Starseeker; 11-03-2010 at 04:53 AM.

    Cleric - Defiant - Greybriar

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  5. #5
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    I see. Well, it never appeared to me that all of the Guardians are religious zealots, only their leaders are. Much like Orphiel has "progress is all" mentality, Cyril is much too hellbent on his religion. The Guardian Ascendant, on the other hand, might just want to do their job and save the world, so he or she has to abide by the rules of the faction.

    And even Cyril is not the "torch and pitchfork" zealot, he just believes that the Vigil is the only way and wishes others would understand it. That's how it seems to me anyway.

  6. #6
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Starseeker's Avatar
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    I believe Cyril is the Guardian Ascendant. much like Asha is the defiant

    Cleric - Defiant - Greybriar

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  7. #7
    Rift Disciple RiftLlama's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP.

    The Crusades and the Inquisition were almost in all cases the desire for man to gain land, riches, power or consolidate power. It had generally nothing to do with God (at least on the european side) other than His name being bandied about to justify this or that. Most of the crusades were defensive in nature, but we forget that one side was generally responding to invasion by the other and one side was clearly using religion as their catalyst. Still, no one is saying that the Guardians can't have this as part of their makeup, or that this can't be the motivation for some players and groups to follow, but to make it seem like the only motivation is lacking and very dull. As the two points you are talking about there certainly were some who actually believed they fought for the cause of their God or god, but it certainly wasn't the motivation of every group that joined in this "cause". And I agree that people still use "religion" at times to justify something they do. But again if you get down to the root of it, only certain factions really believe they are fighting for this reason, others are fighting for reason other than this and either using it as an excuse or not using it at all and making it clear why else they fight, but happen to be on the same side as the "zealots".

    Basically I think most would consider killing other people in the name of your "religion" to be evil. Most of modern society (I say most as there are clearly groups that think this is okay..we are fighting wars with them) see's this as evil. So this might be great for groups that want an evil group, but they claim that neither side is good or evil, but then give us only one motivation for why the Guardians are doing what they are doing. I mean if there are others or factions as the recent Q&A hints at, then let us know about that side. But so far the Guardian zealot is all we've been told about. The Defiant have zealots too (someone mention Orphiel) but they seem more well rounded. More groups doing different things and in the same Q&A we got a look at a couple possible groups, but nothing really for the Guardians. Perhaps they simply haven't finished the Guardian side. I don't know...but help us see them as well rounded as the Defiant that is all we want to see here. Everything is Defiant, Defiant, Defiant....we are promised the Guardian side is cool...we keep hearing just wait until you see it...but why wait to see one side, but get plenty of info about the other? Makes little sense to me.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Uh, we probably have about 1-10% of the lore spelled out for us by now, I'm pretty sure

    Just because we've had defiant lore the last few months (probably just the most fleshed out, is all), doesn't mean we won't get Guardian lore for the next few months ;)

    Lore writers want people to get the gist of things, but not all the details before they actually play the game. I think WoW was one of the few games to me that they laid the whole story out months before things would actually happen in game. It was silly. Let there be mystery!

    But yeah, on the Guardians issue, I'm quite certain we'll get more info in the next 1-2 months.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Aieru's Avatar
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    I agree.
    I'm not asking for all the lore... I'm just asking for some.
    A bit of equality in the reveals.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Mystarra's Avatar
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    I agree with Aieru and many points made in the response posts. When I logged into Facebook this morning to see yet another Defiant lore article, my other half heard me grumbling out loud. I realize there's still some time before release, but it has been awfully lopsided toward Defiants with the information released. And yeah the whole zealot thing is a bit annoying.

    I really do hope we'll be hearing more soon so we have a better understanding of their story.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara Sylvrin's Avatar
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    Umm... do we really need a ton of lore to make our side great? I think not.

    Some of us are Guardians just because we choose to be elves, dwarves, or Mathosian. The lore behind those races is intersting enough for me and allows for some diversity and a wide range of character development.

    No one said you have to be a religious zealot, technophobe or any other form of extremist to be a Guardian. You just have to know that you were called to be one of the Ascended by the gods and that you were charged by them with saving Telara. What you do with that is really entirely up to you. I think having too much lore revealed actually limits roleplay.

    Heck look at the lore about the Boar Spear, he is anything but a religious fanatic.

    And furthermore the lore they have already revealed is rather intriguing if you really follow and understand it. MIssdoomcookie stated that the first Ascended Guardians were ascended on the day the ward was torn and that they fought to keep Regulos from entering Telara. Obviously not ALL Ascended Guardians were resurrected that day, but many were.

    The Defiants come from a future timeline in which there were no Ascended. There were Guardians, but they were not Ascended Heroes and while they defeated the Defiants, they did not stop Telara from being destroyed.

    What many people do not seem to understand is that those Guardians that failed ARE NOT US, they were simple mortals. The Defiant get sent back through time to the same day that the gods began calling Heroes from the soulstream to be Ascended Guardians. That means we are being called to stop what the gods have seen in Telara's future and what the Defiant have seen in Telara's future.

    We are quite literally going to be the saviors of this world! The Defiant cannot do it no matter how much technomagic they have and neither can the mortal Guardians. It will take Ascended Heroes who are guided by the gods to do it. And that is US folks! That's all the lore I need. Guardians are just plain awesome!
    Last edited by Sylvrin; 11-03-2010 at 01:22 PM.
    Those who guard nature, guard life itself. Those who defile nature bring death and destruction upon us all.

  12. #12
    Defiant Maven missdoomcookie's Avatar
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    I made sure publishing knew of the community's concerns, and they assured me that more Guardian lore will be published soon. Our publishing folks focused on Defiants first and then switch gears to Guardian. Articles related to all manner of Guardian subjects are already in the can, in fact, and just waiting for their scheduled releases. The "Defiant to the End" is also a bit of a special project. A guest writer is putting his character's experience in our game into a narrative to give you insight into a particular Ascended's journey, and his is a Defiant. We are trying to do right by both factions, but there are schedules and releases that have to be followed for all manner of different reason. *I* may be biased toward Defiants, because that's my job! ;) But CaptainCursor and others are looking out for the Guardians.
    Lindsay Morgan Lockhart
    Lore Lead - Defiants
    Trion Worlds, Inc
    "I learned at a very young age that the world is full of people who are terrified by knowledge and the power it bestows to the individual. Freedom is to be seized by those with the courage to think for themselves." - Asha Catari

    http://www.twitter.com/missdoomcookie

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    Ascendant Mira's Avatar
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    Did you realize the Facebook caption for the Defient article had a picture of a Guardian?

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara Selene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missdoomcookie View Post
    I made sure publishing knew of the community's concerns, and they assured me that more Guardian lore will be published soon. Our publishing folks focused on Defiants first and then switch gears to Guardian. Articles related to all manner of Guardian subjects are already in the can, in fact, and just waiting for their scheduled releases. The "Defiant to the End" is also a bit of a special project. A guest writer is putting his character's experience in our game into a narrative to give you insight into a particular Ascended's journey, and his is a Defiant. We are trying to do right by both factions, but there are schedules and releases that have to be followed for all manner of different reason. *I* may be biased toward Defiants, because that's my job! ;) But CaptainCursor and others are looking out for the Guardians.
    Thanks for the update, missdoomcookie! I'm glad you guys have the Guardian stuff already written and ready to go...I just wish we could see it already! All in good time, I suppose.

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara Musufasa101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missdoomcookie View Post
    I made sure publishing knew of the community's concerns, and they assured me that more Guardian lore will be published soon. Our publishing folks focused on Defiants first and then switch gears to Guardian. Articles related to all manner of Guardian subjects are already in the can, in fact, and just waiting for their scheduled releases. The "Defiant to the End" is also a bit of a special project. A guest writer is putting his character's experience in our game into a narrative to give you insight into a particular Ascended's journey, and his is a Defiant. We are trying to do right by both factions, but there are schedules and releases that have to be followed for all manner of different reason. *I* may be biased toward Defiants, because that's my job! ;) But CaptainCursor and others are looking out for the Guardians.
    Awesome, thanks for the response. I want as many people to fall in love with the guardian lore as possible....

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