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Thread: Lore Musings 101

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    Shield of Telara Tiamorgina's Avatar
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    Default Lore Musings 101

    I am going to be in RIFT longterm, and as a lore-lover, have been reading the forums, lore, everything. Now, I have some questions/musings to post out to the community. And I know the lore does not spell all this out, and am glad to be getting in on the beginning of a new game and help maybe develop the lore.

    But still would love the community to muse with me:

    1. Defiants: are we resurrected bodies? Or bodies created by from sourcestone?

    1.b. What are Guardian bodies made of? Did I miss this? Have not played one, so maybe answered in the starting area.

    2. Do we come with an original soul? I am going with yes, but what do you think?

    3. Does our body look the same as it did in life, or is it maximized in the rez process so that we might not recognize ourselves right away?

    4. Soul attunement: We know what our speciality was in life (one of the major four), and then we get to do quests/tasks that prove us worthy to attune to another like-skilled soul. Now, do we get their memories? And why weren't they rezzed with bodies? Only certain of us chosen to be resurrected and others not? On what basis wonder?

    5. If we remember [I am going with cloudy, nagging feelings and deja vu from the other souls] as we explore the world, do we recognize places, have yearnings for those not resurrected?, I foresee me also having voices in my head from time to time.

    6. When I go to change my soul attunement, I think a couple of the stronger personalities in my head may get wonky about it. I don't want to play my mage as mad, but um, distracted a bit. Her major personality is HERS, but I do hope to play off the multi-soul issue without dropping into cliched multiple-personality/pychosis issues. Ideas?

    So, just curious about how some of you are going to interpret the lore as you develop your characters.
    Last edited by Tiamorgina; 02-02-2011 at 09:18 AM.

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    Plane Walker Sebiale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamorgina View Post
    1. Flesh and blood I would wager. Gods do it for the Guardians, machines do it for the Defiant.

    2. Yes.

    3. It's the same I think, mainly because you're the same class as you were in life, why give you an unfamiliar body? The mechanics aren't explained, but I imagine the soul pulled out of the Soulstream to create the base of a Defiant/Guardian has some kind of residual memory of what it used to be in life.

    4. Cannot be known unless the devs tell us, not even conjecture.

    5. See #4.

    6. Assuming you gained the actual memories of other souls, they would hopefully just be memories, not another mind in your head.
    Are you trying to figure lore, or RP? You seem to be working at RP from these questions.
    Last edited by Sebiale; 02-02-2011 at 12:42 PM.

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    Shield of Telara Tiamorgina's Avatar
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    Not sure the two things can be separated for me, but I want to know the lore, yes. And that will help me RP even if I only RP in my own head so that the world makes sense.

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    Soulwalker Belavarae's Avatar
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    In terms of what I know, or more accurately what I think I know . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamorgina View Post
    1.b. What are Guardian bodies made of? Did I miss this? Have not played one, so maybe answered in the starting area.
    I was under the assumption that Guardians essentially get their old bodies back. The intro video shows a body-strewn battlefield, and Messengers (the valkyrie-like things you see Guardian-side) seem to be picking through them to decide who to bring back.

    Are those bodies augmented somehow to allow for an Ascended's powers? I have no idea. This is one of those areas where the body/soul problem comes up, and I don't know that this world has a definitive answer for that.

    2. Do we come with an original soul? I am going with yes, but what do you think?
    Guardian players are welcomed back to life, so if we're assuming that a soul is, or contains, the personality or sense of self, then the answer would be yes. If personality has a physiological root (as some people believe it does), then not necessarily. Again, it depends on how, if at all, this setting tackles this particular philosophical problem.

    But more to the point, whatever part of a person contains their sense of self and identity seems to come back with them when they become Ascended. You the Ascended are the same person as you the mortal, just enhanced in some way.

    3. Does our body look the same as it did in life, or is it maximized in the rez process so that we might not recognize ourselves right away?
    The Guardian video seems to suggest your body looks exactly the same, since you see a Messenger scoop it up and bring it to the place where you zone in. This actually might help answer another question, at least on that side of the fence . . .

    4. Soul attunement: We know what our speciality was in life (one of the major four), and then we get to do quests/tasks that prove us worthy to attune to another like-skilled soul. Now, do we get their memories? And why weren't they rezzed with bodies? Only certain of us chosen to be resurrected and others not? On what basis wonder?
    Perhaps the other souls weren't rezzed because their bodies were beyond salvageable. If that's the case, then sticking multiple heroic souls in one heroic body makes a sort of practical sense.

    That is, as you point out, a potentially creepy and worrisome thing. Do Ascended get extra memories? Voices? Conflicting wills? I haven't seen anything ingame about this yet, but no one's seen all the content yet.

    We can safely infer this, though. The Ascended all seem pretty sane, and they combine the skills of multiple souls into a coherent fighting style. Whatever happens to be going on behind the scenes, it doesn't impede the character in any visible way. If multiple souls pose a problem, it's one that most anyone can tackle with reasonable ease.

    5. If we remember [I am going with cloudy, nagging feelings and deja vu from the other souls] as we explore the world, do we recognize places, have yearnings for those not resurrected?, I foresee me also having voices in my head from time to time.
    I don't see why not, and it looks like quite a few people are taking this approach. It's just safe to assume that even those who hear voices won't experience the sort of debilitation that a real-life schizophrenic or dissociative identity disorder patient would have. Those real-world conditions ruin lives. You can't reliably defend the world with that sort of problem.

    6. When I go to change my soul attunement, I think a couple of the stronger personalities in my head may get wonky about it. I don't want to play my mage as mad, but um, distracted a bit. Her major personality is HERS, but I do hope to play off the multi-soul issue without dropping into cliched multiple-personality/pychosis issues. Ideas?
    This is definitely a tricky point, and I'm still not entirely sure how I'll handle it.

    Since soul-swapping is largely something that affects your character's consciousness, you can play with the character's expectation and not necessarily worry about reality. What I mean by that is that, if my character is activating a soul she believes belonged to a High Elf, she might think that makes her a High Elf in some sense, and pick up some elven mannerisms. Whether or not she's actually "possessed" doesn't really matter - the visible result is the same either way.

    Of course, writing about this in third person makes it a little more complicated. I plan to just avoid third person omniscient for things like that - any narration is colored by the character, so I can describe things in a particular way without anyone thinking it's a statement of canon or anything. I think the experience is subjective, and that definitely saves both me and others a lot of potential grief.

    So, just curious about how some of you are going to interpret the lore as you develop your characters.
    The biggest crux I plan on playing with, personally, is the issue of identity that the lore brings up. Is a person really the same after coming back from the dead? Do any old obligations, debts or whatever else carry over? How does a mind handle such a mindbendingly bizarre thing as the thought of having more than one soul? Does the solution vary by culture?

    Those are the questions I poke and prod at. Even if I roleplay a character for five years straight, I don't expect to answer all, or even most of them. I just like question-driven ideas for some reason.

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    Shield of Telara Tiamorgina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belavarae View Post

    The biggest crux I plan on playing with, personally, is the issue of identity that the lore brings up. Is a person really the same after coming back from the dead? Do any old obligations, debts or whatever else carry over? How does a mind handle such a mindbendingly bizarre thing as the thought of having more than one soul? Does the solution vary by culture?

    Those are the questions I poke and prod at. Even if I roleplay a character for five years straight, I don't expect to answer all, or even most of them. I just like question-driven ideas for some reason.
    Thank you so much for this thought out response. This helps me put some of the Guardian material into perspective as well. And your questions are some of the same I am asking, so I guess it really gives us something to RP--our characters will be feeling their way through a very unique experience with no set answers. Will be great to see how it develops.

    I need more lore to read! Wish I had all those books I collected in Meridian on me

    I see so much potential for the lore to develop and get richer, which will in turn add to character development.

    Hope to meet you in-game.

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    4. Soul attunement: We know what our speciality was in life (one of the major four), and then we get to do quests/tasks that prove us worthy to attune to another like-skilled soul. Now, do we get their memories? And why weren't they rezzed with bodies? Only certain of us chosen to be resurrected and others not? On what basis wonder?
    Me personally I do not see it has the actual soul being gained, more of a blessing/download of the knowledge/skills of the new profession. I think of it from the defiant perspective as an add on to the initial soul programming. Guardians could see it as a blessing from the Vigil to aid them in their struggles.

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    Shield of Telara Tiamorgina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrl View Post
    Me personally I do not see it has the actual soul being gained, more of a blessing/download of the knowledge/skills of the new profession. I think of it from the defiant perspective as an add on to the initial soul programming. Guardians could see it as a blessing from the Vigil to aid them in their struggles.
    Good way to see it. Thanks!

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    Plane Touched Aengar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebiale View Post
    Are you trying to figure lore, or RP? You seem to be working at RP from these questions.
    From a RP'ers persective the Lore becomes an intergral part of the Roleplay you cannot have one without the other.I could Roleplay some High Elf from Faerun(Forgotten Realms AD&D)in Rift but it wouldnt make much sense in order to make the RP flow you have to have a decent Lore to pull from.

    :Vysceral-High Elf Rogue:
    :Ammwyn(Amwynn)-Mathosian Warrior:

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    Champion Pretext's Avatar
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    1. Defiants: are we resurrected bodies? Or bodies created by from sourcestone?

    Both I think.

    2. Do we come with an original soul? I am going with yes, but what do you think?

    Yes, thats the one thats picked, which showed its worth in life.

    3. Does our body look the same as it did in life, or is it maximized in the rez process so that we might not recognize ourselves right away?

    We look as we in in life. You might get a heroic makeover.

    4. Soul attunement: We know what our speciality was in life (one of the major four), and then we get to do quests/tasks that prove us worthy to attune to another like-skilled soul. Now, do we get their memories? And why weren't they rezzed with bodies? Only certain of us chosen to be resurrected and others not? On what basis wonder?

    On the basis of what we did in life that showed we were hero material. The other 'souls' are just powers, they were never heroic enough to make the grade.

    5. If we remember [I am going with cloudy, nagging feelings and deja vu from the other souls] as we explore the world, do we recognize places, have yearnings for those not resurrected?, I foresee me also having voices in my head from time to time.

    No voices, but the odd memory thats not yours is something I might use.

    6. When I go to change my soul attunement, I think a couple of the stronger personalities in my head may get wonky about it. I don't want to play my mage as mad, but um, distracted a bit. Her major personality is HERS, but I do hope to play off the multi-soul issue without dropping into cliched multiple-personality/pychosis issues. Ideas?

    We really need to steer clear of this, or we are all going to be head cases. This is a good example of where the lore was not thought through, so we had to do it for Trion.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara Tiamorgina's Avatar
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    Yes, steering clear of the voices/full blown personalities issue a bit, but do think those many souls in my body will have some influence, memories, etc. that can make for some good RP if kept subtle, very subtle. Just playing a resurrected body/soul adds enough drama material

    I noticed more lore went up last night. Off to read, and ponder....

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    Here's a clip from my experiences ... some of the information you are seeking is within ...

    The past is saved!
    The Ascended is here!

    In a flash of light I stood upon a small platform in a large room full of science equipment. Technicians scurried about between strange machines of all makes and sizes. Some worked diligently at consoles turning knobs, while others flip switches at large cylinders. Some of which contain some sort of liquid and throw out lightning charges. A nearby technician spoke out ... "Just a small adjustment to the energy flow. There! The sourcestone matrix is excellently formed. This is going to be a strong one. This ascended is nearly complete. The soul has coupled with the sourcestone nicely to regenerate a new form."

    As I stood dazed and confused, a women close by motioned me to step down and approach her. "Your new sourcestone graphed body looks to have merged with your soul excellently" ... she said. She turned quickly to the strange machine that stood upright in front of her. "I am Calia Sorfun, assistant to Sylver Valis, our resurrection forges have just brought you back from the dead. Take a moment to find your bearings, it must be disorienting to be thrust into a new body like that. It may take some getting used to your new power."


    Life Factory Rebirth


    1. "The soul has coupled with the sourcestone nicely to regenerate a new form."
    2. "Your new sourcestone graphed body looks to have merged with your soul excellently"
    Last edited by EntreNous; 02-03-2011 at 08:31 AM. Reason: posting before second cup of coffee is brutal ... LOL
    RiftRares ... A work in progress.
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    Shield of Telara Tiamorgina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntreNous View Post
    Here's a clip from my experiences ... some of the information you are seeking is within ...

    The past is saved!
    The Ascended is here!

    In a flash of light I stood upon a small platform in a large room full of science equipment. Technicians scurried about between strange machines of all makes and sizes. Some worked diligently at consoles turning knobs, while others flip switches at large cylinders. Some of which contain some sort of liquid and throw out lightning charges. A nearby technician spoke out ... "Just a small adjustment to the energy flow. There! The sourcestone matrix is excellently formed. This is going to be a strong one. This ascended is nearly complete. The soul has coupled with the sourcestone nicely to regenerate a new form." What was this strange place I have no memories of?

    As I stood dazed and confused, a women close by motioned me to step down and approach her. "Your new sourcestone graphed body looks to have merged with your soul excellently" ... she said. She turned quickly to the strange machine that stood upright in front of her. "I am Calia Sorfun, assistant to Sylver Valis, our resurrection forges have just brought you back from the dead. Take a moment to find your bearings, it must be disorienting to be thrust into a new body like that. It may take some getting used to your new power."

    Life Factory Rebirth
    I am going to your blog right now. Thanks for sharing!
    *hurries away*

    Your blog has just made my day. I am sitting at work reading away. I too am an explorer who loves to take my time and see things, poke into little known corners. And I love to read lore. Keep up the wonderful work, please!
    Last edited by Tiamorgina; 02-03-2011 at 08:47 AM. Reason: because I found a blog I love!

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    Soulwalker CavKrieger's Avatar
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    My dwarf was reincarnated from an unusual deer that was accidently killed in the battle of Regulos. A blind Valkrie flew into a burnt up tree and picked my broken deer body off the ground and mixed it with Iron, cream, A splash of stale ale, and the rib of a a virgin and poof I was remade whole as a dwarf.You cannot deny that guardian unusual deer died that day and this is the way it was. Hence forth save the unusual deer and kill an unusual squirrel and wolves for they are not from the Gods but instead are defiant spys put into little furry bodies to consume all that is good. The high elf standing next to me was actually hatched from an acorn. He will molt into a giant oak tree and drop other acorns that will hatch into more elves. This is the way of things. This is the way all things good and guardian like come about.
    Kahn
    Desert Son of the Dragonslayer's Covenant

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    Memories ... It's easy to figure that we have our memories, since all the ascended npc's tell us their story from before they had died. There is more evidence then just that, but that is so much easier to explain it that way.

    A question still remains ... one to ponder .. How does Asha retain her body?

    If we know that as a Defiant we get a grahped new body ... somehow.
    How is it that she retains her old body? (now somewhat changed - markings/changed eye colors).

    I'm betting that it's perhaps going a bit far. Asha is an awesome character. We like her just the way she is !

    ~Entre~
    Last edited by EntreNous; 02-03-2011 at 08:50 AM.
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    Shield of Telara Tiamorgina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntreNous View Post
    Memories ... It's easy to figure that we have our memories, since all the ascended npc's tell us their story from before they had died. There is more evidence then just that, but that is so much easier to explain it that way.

    A question still remains ... one to ponder .. How does Asha retain her body?

    If we know that as a Defiant we get a grahped new body ... somehow.
    How is it that she retains her old body? (now somewhat changed - markings/changed eye colors).

    I'm betting that it's perhaps going a bit far. Asha is an awesome character. We like her just the way she is !

    ~Entre~
    I am meeting so many interesting, lore, RP folks, but am concerned that with two US RP/PVE servers, we won't all be together! *frets* I rolled on Faeblight, and really like it there for beta 5, staying for beta 6. And since some other people that I admire are rolling Faeblight, think me and my small crew will stay there and find a like-minded guild. But, but, some of the people who I also want to "server" with are on the other RP/PVE. Arghhhh.

    And here is another timline question trying to wrap my head around: Defiants go back in time to stop events. Guardians are sent ahead. And they meet in time at one crucial moment. Good thing they synced their watches huh?
    Last edited by Tiamorgina; 02-03-2011 at 08:55 AM. Reason: questions!

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