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Thread: Some questions about the lore...

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Default Some questions about the lore...

    I know I'm a PItA but I really do like consistency. So:

    The new lore tells us that the Defiant are from the future where Telara is about to be destroyed, in other words, the Vigil has failed. And somehow they expect people to join the Guardian side knowing that. This concerns me. Unless, the future they see is one of many possible and shown to the Defiant as propaganda?

    The opening of Rifts seems logical for the Defiant because they believe they can defeat the planar beings and no longer need the ward. But, Guardians believe (I think) that the ward needs to be rebuilt or strengthened by the Vigil and they are tasked with the protection of Telara while the Vigil works out a solution. Why would they open rifts? Why would the Vigil allow them to?

    Why would the Guardians mine Sourcestone when they see it properly as the stuff of creation. Can they not use it in situ to communicate with the Vigil?

    One of the gameplay aspects of rifts is to encourage them to take over opponents areas. While again this seems to be a proper Defiant tactic it seems blasphemous for Guardians to use this tactic.

    I know gameplay and changes to gameplay trump lore but it is becoming kind of 'join the Guardians! the losing side, who must do blasphemous things to play the game effectively, oh and btw the other side has not only everything GUardians do but also technomagic and Asha...' Are the Guardians the redheaded stepchild? An afterthought?
    Last edited by Kula; 10-22-2010 at 03:52 AM.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    I know I'm a PItA but I really do like consistency. So:

    The new lore tells us that the Defiant are from the future where Telara is about to be destroyed, in other words, the Vigil has failed. And somehow they expect people to join the Guardian side knowing that. This concerns me. Unless, the future they see is one of many possible and shown to the Defiant as propaganda?

    The opening of Rifts seems logical for the Defiant because they believe they can defeat the planar beings and no longer need the ward. But, Guardians believe (I think) that the ward needs to be rebuilt or strengthened by the Vigil and they are tasked with the protection of Telara while the Vigil works out a solution. Why would they open rifts? Why would the Vigil allow them to?

    Why would the Guardians mine Sourcestone when they see it properly as the stuff of creation. Can they not use it in situ to communicate with the Vigil?

    One of the gameplay aspects of rifts is to encourage them to take over opponents areas. While again this seems to be a proper Defiant tactic it seems blasphemous for Guardians to use this tactic.

    I know gameplay and changes to gameplay trump lore but it is becoming kind of 'join the Guardians! the losing side, who must do blasphemous things to play the game effectively, oh and btw the other side has not only everything GUardians do but also technomagic and Asha...' Are the Guardians the redheaded stepchild? An afterthought?
    Future: players will pick Guardian regardless. It was the Eth's fault that this whole mess was started, and perhaps with an altered timeline from the Defiant existing, it may not even matter that the Guardians failed before. Or something. We don't even have details yet so *come on*.

    Rift opening: Because it stops invasions and seals them off.

    Sourcestone: We don't know yet. We don't know a *lot* of things yet.

    Rift attacks: Who says all Guardians are so reverent of the Vigil? Just because that one leader is, doesn't mean the rest are by far. They are simply the *chosen* people of *chosen* races because they are the *'best'*.

    Guardians and Defiant: Uh you seem to forget (no, I'm not really assuming you are) that the Eth Empire opened up this whole mess. They very likely may mess up this whole thing again, with maybe the Bahmi's planar resonense (just guessin here), and the Kelari's nebulous spirit dealings.

    Maybe its that its early morning and I spend the whole night studying for a mid-term just to be sure, but you seem to always ask lore questions when the answers should tend to come to a clear "This information will be introduced at a later time." and its no more complex than that.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Just saying, I'm going to have my Defiant main, but I'm very interested in the Guardians side of the story. I think both are strongly at fault for the problems that Telara faces and will face, but both can also be the world's saviours.

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Just sayin' there are discontinuities that will push even more people towards the Defiant and really for gameplay they need to be releasing appealing things for the Guardians... Just sayin'. Posting that you don't know the answer but are sure it will be revealed at some later date is pretty much saying these baords are completely unnecessary. Just sayin'.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    Just sayin' there are discontinuities that will push even more people towards the Defiant and really for gameplay they need to be releasing appealing things for the Guardians... Just sayin'. Posting that you don't know the answer but are sure it will be revealed at some later date is pretty much saying these baords are completely unnecessary. Just sayin'.
    That was totally unnecessary. I'll make sure to stay clear of you now.

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    That was totally unnecessary. I'll make sure to stay clear of you now.
    That's fine. People who seem to think they can ask questions whose answers are already known (your female dwarf thread) and then turn around and take others to task for asking questions whose answers aren't known are... well, I'll let you complete that sentence.

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    Rift Disciple Tevesh's Avatar
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    The new lore tells us that the Defiant are from the future where Telara is about to be destroyed, in other words, the Vigil has failed. And somehow they expect people to join the Guardian side knowing that. This concerns me. Unless, the future they see is one of many possible and shown to the Defiant as propaganda?
    You may either consider it one of the possibilities, propaganda, or look at it this way: the defiants are from the future with no guardian players. Perhaps the guardians were not wrong in their ways, just did not have enough numbers or strength of arms to do the job. You, as a guardian player, ensure they do.

    The opening of Rifts seems logical for the Defiant because they believe they can defeat the planar beings and no longer need the ward. But, Guardians believe (I think) that the ward needs to be rebuilt or strengthened by the Vigil and they are tasked with the protection of Telara while the Vigil works out a solution. Why would they open rifts? Why would the Vigil allow them to?
    Nobody opens the rift out of nowhere. There is a planar cleft, a crack in the ward that sooner or later will inevitably open in a rift. The later it will happen though the harder will it be to deal with it and the more forces will gather on the other side ready to invade. You are just trying to deal with the problem before many inhabitants of those plane get aware of the rift and try to invade, so you have to deal only with the vanguard of sorts, not with the full scale well-prepared invasion. The dragon cultists however seek to open the rifts AND protect them as they grow, which is more effective as well, since over the time more creatures will get through. You try to open the rift, kill everyone within, deplete its energy, get some sourcestone out of it and only then close it. Not that the planar 'crack' can be outright closed without opening it into a rift in the first place.

    Why would the Guardians mine Sourcestone when they see it properly as the stuff of creation. Can they not use it in situ to communicate with the Vigil?
    They also seem to need new sourcestones after using them to commune with the gods, or they just need more of it to keep building new shrines and/or making new offerings.

    One of the gameplay aspects of rifts is to encourage them to take over opponents areas. While again this seems to be a proper Defiant tactic it seems blasphemous for Guardians to use this tactic.
    Why would it be blasphemous? They are preventing heretics from seizing control over vital areas such as sourstone mines both to keep it from being defiled and to drain their resources to eventually get rid of them altogether. Any way, there is no such thing as 'blasphemy' in war, there is only something that brings you closer to victory and something that does not. Oh btw the Vigil have not wiped defiant out themselves only because of the ward (or some other law/force of universe) prevents them from manifesting physically in the world as well as acting directly. So the crusade against defiants is actually ordained by the Vigil themselves. There is no blasphemy in killing heretics, blasphemy is letting them live and spread their vile belief.
    Last edited by Tevesh; 10-22-2010 at 05:59 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Neviana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    I know I'm a PItA but I really do like consistency. So:

    The new lore tells us that the Defiant are from the future where Telara is about to be destroyed, in other words, the Vigil has failed. And somehow they expect people to join the Guardian side knowing that. This concerns me. Unless, the future they see is one of many possible and shown to the Defiant as propaganda?
    As far as the Defiant coming back because the Vigil failed I'm not 100% on that theory. In the Gameswelt interview it was said that they came from a different timeline. So in 'their' world Telara has been destroyed but like the butterfly effect once they started messing with events in the past they create a new timeline thus... a blank slate for the Guardians. With all humor aside the best way to explain this would be to quote Doc from back to the future 2.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OPkqY9doGE


    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    The opening of Rifts seems logical for the Defiant because they believe they can defeat the planar beings and no longer need the ward. But, Guardians believe (I think) that the ward needs to be rebuilt or strengthened by the Vigil and they are tasked with the protection of Telara while the Vigil works out a solution. Why would they open rifts? Why would the Vigil allow them to?

    It would make sense for the Guardians to open the rifts in order to close them again (since they would just open eventually anyway) while they work on strengthening the ward. It is known that if you ignore a Rift from one of the invading planes it will eventually form a stronghold in the world and start and invasion. It would seem silly for the Guardians to ignore the invading Rifts while they would to strengthen the ward. Perhaps it was that choice in the first place that caused Telara to be destroyed and hence why the Defiant traveled back in time to this new timeline?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    Why would the Guardians mine Sourcestone when they see it properly as the stuff of creation. Can they not use it in situ to communicate with the Vigil?


    Sourcestone is a holy artifact for the Guardians that is said to help them communicate with the Vigil. I don't know much about Sourcestones (I know shame on me! lol) but they may also help strengthen the Vigil and thus the ward? Don't quote me though. But I'm sure the Lore team has a good reason for the Guardians to be searching for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    One of the gameplay aspects of rifts is to encourage them to take over opponents areas. While again this seems to be a proper Defiant tactic it seems blasphemous for Guardians to use this tactic.

    I dissagree. If you consider since the Defiant did travel here from a different timeline they would be 'invaders' into the Guardians world and are as much of a threat as the planes. The Defiant want to invade a world that is not their own and mold it to their liking. My Guardian, for one, does NOT like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    I know gameplay and changes to gameplay trump lore but it is becoming kind of 'join the Guardians! the losing side, who must do blasphemous things to play the game effectively, oh and btw the other side has not only everything GUardians do but also technomagic and Asha...' Are the Guardians the redheaded stepchild? An afterthought?
    What are some of the things you believe are Blasphemous? If it is gaining control of Defiant territory would the Guardian believe that they are only gaining back their land from another invader? It is all in perspective. This post seems to be written from a Defiant's point of view. A Guardian would consider the acts as working towards the fight to save Telara from ALL alien forces. Also, don't fret because there is not a lot of Guardian lore compaired to the Defiant don't fret. We are not the redheaded step child nor are we an afterthought. We will have our day in the sun just you wait!
    Last edited by Neviana; 10-22-2010 at 05:59 AM.

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevesh View Post
    Why would it be blasphemous? They are preventing heretics from seizing control over vital areas such as sourstone mines both to keep it from being defiled and to drain their resources to eventually get rid of them altogether. Any way, there is no such thing as 'blasphemy' in war, there is only something that brings you closer to victory and something that does not. Oh btw the Vigil have not wiped defiant out themselves only because of the ward (or some other law/force of universe) prevents them from manifesting physically in the world as well as acting directly. So the crusade against defiants is actually ordained by the Vigil themselves. There is no blasphemy in killing heretics, blasphemy is letting them live and spread their vile belief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neviana View Post
    I dissagree. If you consider since the Defiant did travel here from a different timeline they would be 'invaders' into the Guardians world and are as much of a threat as the planes. The Defiant want to invade a world that is not their own and mold it to their liking. My Guardian, for one, does NOT like this idea.

    What are some of the things you believe are Blasphemous? If it is gaining control of Defiant territory would the Guardian believe that they are only gaining back their land from another invader? It is all in perspective. This post seems to be written from a Defiant's point of view. A Guardian would consider the acts as working towards the fight to save Telara from ALL alien forces. Also, don't fret because there is not a lot of Guardian lore compaired to the Defiant don't fret. We are not the redheaded step child nor are we an afterthought. We will have our day in the sun just you wait!

    They are allowing rifts to stay open to defeat the Defiant by controlling Defiant areas. Seems blasphemous to leave rifts open at all.

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    Rift Disciple Neviana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    They are allowing rifts to stay open to defeat the Defiant by controlling Defiant areas. Seems blasphemous to leave rifts open at all.
    The devs had said in interviews that the 'war' between the Defiant and Guardians can take a backseat when it comes to the rifts. Defiants and Guardians could help each other defeat a rift and as soon as it is closed turn and battle each other. It isn't just the Guardians who have the oppurtunity to ignore the rifts just to battle the 'other side' the Defiants can make the decision themselves. They firmly believe the way Guardians do things are wrong and therefore are battling against them to gain control over them. It goes both ways.

    Also "Blasphemy" means irreverence toward holy personages, religious artifacts, customs, and beliefs. So I don't see how the Guardians are blasphemous if they are doing it for the gods.
    Last edited by Neviana; 10-22-2010 at 08:29 AM.

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    Prophet of Telara Jorun's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure about the timeline differences between defiant and guardian. There were some 80 years difference between when Asha died during the Blood Storm war and her ascension.

    Even when Asha returned, the guardians & defiant were basically one. That much we do know. The split began to really occur when a scholar used Eth technology he had discovered on an archeological mission. He used one of the resurrection forages and was the first to actually be successful in getting one of the dead's souls out of the soulstream. The first was Asha.

    Was the timeline different within those 80 years? What really went on during those years on Telara and with Asha? True Regulos took her soul and split her somehow, but was he the one that gave her the heightened magical powers she now possesses?

    Considering Regulos told Ashe she would suffer if she didn't bend to his will, I wonder if he would have given her the magical powers. Or, perhaps he did in hopes she would use it to defeat the lesser gods of the planes? But then, isn't it the Blood Storm who uses the planes to wreck havoc on Telara?

    So, I have my doubts Regulos gave her those uber magical powers before she was ascended. Something else happened during those 80 years.


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    Prophet of Telara Skythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorun View Post
    I'm not so sure about the timeline differences between defiant and guardian. There were some 80 years difference between when Asha died during the Blood Storm war and her ascension.

    Even when Asha returned, the guardians & defiant were basically one. Really? When did that happen? Do you mean before the factions EXISTED, a completely different thing than being one?That much we do know. The split began to really occur when a scholar used Eth technology he had discovered on an archeological mission. He used one of the resurrection forages and was the first to actually be successful in getting one of the dead's souls out of the soulstream. The first was Asha. That is, before the Defiants existed. They were still known as the 'Dragonslayer Covenant' back then.

    Was the timeline different within those 80 years? What really went on during those years on Telara and with Asha? True Regulos took her soul and split her somehow, but was he the one that gave her the heightened magical powers she now possesses?
    "Beyond the Ward, Regulos drew her spirit from the Soulstream and brought her before him. The Destroyer infused her with great power, a temptation to convince Asha to become his general on Telara. She refused. Enraged by Asha’s denial, Regulos attempted to destroy her, igniting the very energy with which he had embroidered her soul. But before Regulos could finish, Asha’s agonized spirit was pulled away as the dread god howled in frustration." That's how she got her powers, that's the glowing tattoos she has. Where did you get that he split her soul? He never did such thing.


    Considering Regulos told Ashe she would suffer if she didn't bend to his will, I wonder if he would have given her the magical powers. Or, perhaps he did in hopes she would use it to defeat the lesser gods of the planes? But then, isn't it the Blood Storm who uses the planes to wreck havoc on Telara? Same as above.

    So, I have my doubts Regulos gave her those uber magical powers before she was ascended. Something else happened during those 80 years. Same as above.
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    Prophet of Telara Jorun's Avatar
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    Well, guess I have it all backwards and upside down. I got the impression the defiant & guardian fault battles together. The graphic rendering in the comic looked like Asha was split in two. I thought there was an 80 year time difference between Asha's death and ascension. But guess I have it all wrong. Sorry.


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    Rift Disciple Aieru's Avatar
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    Much of the lore is very confusing. I'm just waiting for that post from the devs clearing everything up.
    I admit- that 'time travel' thing really threw a wrench in everything pertaining to timeline and continuity.
    I wonder if this is a "Lost" scenario? *laughs* The devs keeping us guessing what is 'truth' and 'reality'.... until the final episode (aka Launch Day).

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    Prophet of Telara Skythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aieru View Post
    Much of the lore is very confusing. I'm just waiting for that post from the devs clearing everything up.
    I admit- that 'time travel' thing really threw a wrench in everything pertaining to timeline and continuity.
    I wonder if this is a "Lost" scenario? *laughs* The devs keeping us guessing what is 'truth' and 'reality'.... until the final episode (aka Launch Day).
    I hope not! The end of Lost was terribad.
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