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Thread: Half of Mathosia becoming life planar infested.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Half of Mathosia becoming life planar infested.

    I am currently doing quests in Greenscale crater.

    This crater is basically where Greenscale fell after shot down while passing through Brevane.

    The lush jungle and creatures were basically by his blood. What shocks me is that the site is only a small portion of land BUT it had enough planar energy to infect the entire of Dendrome, except for the part where the Architects live.

    So a small crash and some bleeding lead all of these events to happen.

    We basically slaughtered Greenscale in GSB, the endless mushroom that sprouts from his lifeless carcass indicates that his body is already slowly infecting the cavern around you.

    Plus forward a few years and asceded have mostly left telara for the cosmic cosmic war beyond the void. I wonder what will Mathosia become once it is life over burdened with life plane.

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    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    Everything surrounding the Bloodstorm Dragons deaths are basically a canon nightmare that makes very little sense but I will try to explain the different things that have happened. So there are 3 distinct death events that are canon or at least told to us in game. When it comes to killing a dragon separate things happen to there powers and there is no one answer.

    The first case is Regulos claims to have devoured the souls of the dragons as we killed them. This means that at the bare minimum their soul went up into the soul stream and Reggy plucked it out and ate it. The problem with this is that it is simply not true as we will see in the third case. I place it here because it is one of the 3 things we are told about the dragons when they die. The likely thing is that this is simply a lie told by Regulos to strike fear into the ascended.

    Second is that as the dragons died the planar powers of the dragons are dispersed through Telara and attempt to re-congeal into solitary motes holding a large amount of planar power. The risk is that as the motes reform other creatures could collect them and wield huge amounts of power comparable to the dragons. The ascended hunted down the motes and did not let them reform effectively letting the energy disperse harmlessly. This is 100% canon as it was as event marking Greenscale and Akylios' deaths in patch 1.4 hotfix 3. This explains why telara will not be over run by life as you mentioned.

    So this was the lore up until Storm Legion... The soul of the dragon and the powers were separate things once they died. The soul would go to Regulos and the power stays on Telara.

    The third case is where it all gets confusing... Now in another 100% canon event. After Maelforge is killed on Telara the soul and the planar energy of Maelforge returned to the plane of fire. Here Lady Glasya claims the soul of maelforge, which holds all his planar energy, as her own. She goes from just being strong to being near Bloodstorm Dragon like in strength. This is important because his soul did not go the soulstream nor did his planar energy stay in Telara. This is why I simply believe Regulos was lying, but it is a conflict of canon that the maelforge's planar energy did not stay on Telara.

    TLDR: Its a total mess...

    PS: The endless mushrooms in GSB are just a bug.
    Last edited by IonCannon; 04-08-2015 at 08:55 AM.

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  3. #3
    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    The effects of a dragon on it's surrounding is not even really explained in this game.

    As for deaths and what happens to their "souls", bodies etc is a giant mess, especially after that Maelforge lore piece.

    I mean his body and "soul" went back to the plane of fire and was "consumed", but Laethys may have gone to the soul stream, who knows what happened to her body and original body.
    Greenscale, no one knows, probably back the plane and/or the soul stream.

    The story was stating the heart of Maelforge was his "soul" so maybe it's not accurate, but then we still have no clue where dragon "souls" go because they clearly have them given what's happened to Crucia.
    She was able to exist, ala soul walk, like Ascended when killed (at least for a little bit), does that mean the others are soul walking to the planes to their bodies?

    Akylios wasn't even a real dragon, who knows how that works, and the original water dragon died in the planes, like Regulos, which is slightly implied they perma die? Maybe?

    Then there's the whole motes thing in Dendrome. If a dragon dies another is born.
    Is it like Avatar? Do they have links to the previous dragon? Or is it just a dragon born from the demi-god like powers of the dragons?

    It's a mess. lol

  4. #4
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    What about Scarn... i swear i remember him supposedly being born to become the new fire dragon (Master mode dungeon where we snuffed him out) not 100% sure though. im not really a Lore buff.

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    Darn it, I was hoping the mushroom thing was a red herring because of the new greenscale intrepid binding of blood thing.

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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anmoa View Post
    What about Scarn... i swear i remember him supposedly being born to become the new fire dragon (Master mode dungeon where we snuffed him out) not 100% sure though. im not really a Lore buff.
    I'm sure he did, as did some other bosses for other planes after the dragons died.

    However I don't believe any of them would actually have the "power" of a "dragon god" because of the whole mote thing.
    The power of a dragon god seems to be some external force that is not fundamentally linked to the actual dragon, they just get it when they are born.

    Think of the Avatar anime. When they died they don't technically retain the power, it moves on to a new avatar. I imagine, or at least, that's how I perceive the power of dragon gods works.

    Since Tasuil was the result of successfully collecting all of the motes for the plane of life, HE should technically be the new plane of life dragon god, even though he went MIA in 3.0.

    If the dragons work the way I think they work, there should be a new fire, air, death and water dragon somewhere and may be good or evil.
    Also they shouldn't be called gods because they are clearly mortal and can be overpowered and overthrown (as indicated when Akylios took over the place of waters position).

  7. #7
    Thread of Fate Twinmoon's Avatar
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    You're wrong where the Blood Storm aren't considered gods - they were until they took dragon forms. This is why Regulos seems so much more powerful than the rest - he didn't assume a form on Telara aside from possessing Aedraxis / using his shade. EE was more of a crossover with the Plane of Death, but it still made his mortal coil able to be destroyed.

    As for the other dragons that died, i.e. Laethys, Greenscale, Maelforge - Maelforge's planar power returned to the Plane of Fire for reasons we still don't really understand (probably because Scarn, the other candidate for Dragon of Fire, is dead). Greenscale's power is probably still stewing in Greenscale's Blight (not counting the Dendrome life motes that were used with Tasuil), if it hasn't already returned to the Plane of Life or to Tasuil. Laethys was mentioned in the chronicle to have "gone to the Soulstream, where her brother Regulos is eagerly waiting for her" by Carcera. Whether this is true in our sliver is assumed.

    Crucia still possesses her power because, when she died, she quickly assumed another body as to not let the motes decay. Adding the Oculons that she now possesses, it's not likely we're going to be able to kill her anytime soon. Regulos' power still resides in the Plane of Death where he likely still is very active.

    Besides, there's still a crapton of shadestone in GSB that would counteract the effects of life energy spreading out of it.

  8. #8
    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    I don't think its the right question to ask whether or not the dragons are gods. They are very clearly mortal creatures but the dragon cults do worship them as living gods. Its a matter of semantics at that point.

    Additionally there is no evidence that mentions them taking on dragon forms once they came to telara. The forms the dragons have in Telara are probably identical to what they were in their respective planes. The reason Regulos never shows up in Telara is because during the Bloodstorm War his physical dragon body was destroyed and soul was sent to the plane of death. This is not the case for the other 5 dragons who kept there physical forms and were imprisoned on Telara itself. In the guardian quest line you thwart the Endless from reconstructing his original body. That is why in EE he is not a dragon and instead he is piloting a new flesh golem body. That is his spirit and possibly what little may be left of his body piloting the golem and it is pretty clear that Regulos perishes with the golem after you defeat it.
    Last edited by IonCannon; 04-11-2015 at 01:45 PM.

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  9. #9
    Thread of Fate Twinmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IonCannon View Post

    Additionally there is no evidence that mentions them taking on dragon forms once they came to telara. In the guardian quest line you thwart the Endless from reconstructing his original body. That is why in EE he is not a dragon and instead he is piloting a new flesh golem body. That is his spirit and possibly what little may be left of his body piloting the golem and it is pretty clear that Regulos perishes with the golem after you defeat it.
    In the official Telara Chronicles comics, a short lore section is appended to the end, after the comics. This reads:

    Millenia ago, the gods forged a world from sourcestone and peopled it with many races. All lived in harmony until the coming of the Blood Storm, a pack of baleful gods embodying the six essential forces: Life, Death, Air, Fire, Water, and Earth.

    The Blood Storm ravaged the universe, consuming every world they encountered. At their head was Regulos the Destroyer, Eater of Worlds and the embodiment of death. When they came upon Telara, the lesser Blood Storm rebelled against their leader.

    Just when Telara was at their mercy, the Blood Storm manifested as great dragons and fell to infighting. The lesser dragons fought each other to rule the world, and against Regulos to keep him from devouring their prize. Telara's people seized the opportunity to slay Regulos' physical form, banish his spirit, and lock the five lesser dragons in elemental prisons.
    The Blood Storm were elemental gods (with the exception of Akylios, who we know was an Akvan who joined the Blood Storm). By slaying Regulos' physical form (the Shade of Regulos / Possessed Aedraxis), we banished his spirit. He has never once manifested as the actual dragon that you only glimpse twice in the entire game (Once in the Eye of Regulos in Mathosia, behind Aedraxis, and once in Terminus when Asha is keeping Regulos at bay).

    I will not dispute that we destroyed his physical form and destroyed the Remnants of Aedraxis (along with Kain) - but that was not his dragon form. Neither was the flesh monstrosity that Regulos piloted. You can keep killing his mortal coils, but you can't kill him because he'll just return to the Plane of Death and resurrect himself anyway.
    Last edited by Twinmoon; 04-11-2015 at 07:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinmoon View Post
    In the official Telara Chronicles comics, a short lore section is appended to the end, after the comics. This reads:
    Just going to get out ahead of this first and say anything in there could be non-canon but for the sake of argument I am going to say this particular portion it is still canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twinmoon View Post
    The Blood Storm were elemental gods (with the exception of Akylios, who we know was an Akvan who joined the Blood Storm). By slaying Regulos' physical form (the Shade of Regulos / Possessed Aedraxis), we banished his spirit. He has never once manifested as the actual dragon that you only glimpse twice in the entire game (Once in the Eye of Regulos in Mathosia, behind Aedraxis, and once in Terminus when Asha is keeping Regulos at bay).
    In this section you have your timeline mixed up . When the Hero's of Telara originally slayed Regulos' physical form (dragon form), banish his spirit to the plane of death, and imprisoned the other 5 dragons that was 1500 years years ago. The Vigil then constructs the ward to keep other dangers from entering Telara. Then only 20 years ago Regulos unable to physically return to Telara he possesses Aedraxis and convinces Orphiel to use Eth Technology to break the ward and allow the rifts to return... You are right when you say we never saw his dragon form that is because it was defeated and destroyed 1500 years ago.

    The pieces where then separated and scattered through Mathosia. You learn his his heart was in the King's Breach Instance, his Fang is what we fight over in the Black Garden warfront, etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twinmoon View Post
    I will not dispute that we destroyed his physical form and destroyed the Remnants of Aedraxis (along with Kain) - but that was not his dragon form. Neither was the flesh monstrosity that Regulos piloted. You can keep killing his mortal coils, but you can't kill him because he'll just return to the Plane of Death and resurrect himself anyway.
    Hate to break it you but all signs point to him being dead...
    Last edited by IonCannon; 04-11-2015 at 09:14 PM.

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  11. #11
    Thread of Fate Twinmoon's Avatar
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    Let me address the canonity of the Telara comics first: Any and all content within there is to be considered canon with the exception of the corrections found in the "Clearing the Air" thread linked here: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...omic-book.html

    Regarding the timeline - the Ward was created after the Blood Storm manifested on Telara and before they were bound - the dragons landed on Telara to take it for their own and keep Regulos from destroying it, giving enough delay for the Ward to be made. This kept the dragons in and Regulos out until the events of the Shade. The binding of the 5 lesser Blood Storm took place before the Shade / Aedraxis allowing Regulos into the world by taking Aedraxis' body and making it his avatar - his first physical form on Telara. The Vigil ascended the Guardians to protect against the threat of Regulos having a physical form long-term - which they fulfilled by shattering his body.

    If Regulos was capable of dying, he would not have returned in EE. And, even in EE, directly before he is defeated, he yells out this: "I cannot be unmade!" All death makes Regulos stronger. Like Crucia, killing a physical form of his is just a setback - and killing something that houses his spirit will end up back on the Soulstream directly back to the Plane of Death, where he is the ruler as far as we know. We might not see him on Telara ever again, but he is still there.
    Last edited by Twinmoon; 04-12-2015 at 10:15 AM.

  12. #12
    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinmoon View Post
    Regarding the timeline - the Ward was created after the Blood Storm manifested on Telara and before they were bound - the dragons landed on Telara to take it for their own and keep Regulos from destroying it, giving enough delay for the Ward to be made. This kept the dragons in and Regulos out until the events of the Shade. The binding of the 5 lesser Blood Storm took place before the Shade / Aedraxis allowing Regulos into the world by taking Aedraxis' body and making it his avatar - his first physical form on Telara. The Vigil ascended the Guardians to protect against the threat of Regulos having a physical form long-term - which they fulfilled by shattering his body.
    Ok, I want you to go to this post. Its the official timeline... Do you see where it says 1500 years ago? Does it say "The Blood Storm invades, all but Regulos are imprisoned on Telara. Regulos's body is destroyed, and his spirit banished beyond a Ward erected by the Vigil to keep Telara safe from planar invasion."? Now here is the important part... Does it say Regulos's body is destroyed and his spirit is banished beyond the ward? Clearly saying his spirit is banished beyond the ward states that it was in Telara until it was banished 1500 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twinmoon View Post
    If Regulos was capable of dying, he would not have returned in EE. And, even in EE, directly before he is defeated, he yells out this: "I cannot be unmade!" All death makes Regulos stronger. Like Crucia, killing a physical form of his is just a setback - and killing something that houses his spirit will end up back on the Soulstream directly back to the Plane of Death, where he is the ruler as far as we know. We might not see him on Telara ever again, but he is still there.
    Ok, lets get the full quote. Regulos in his death animation says "I cannot be unmade! My minions will harvest souls for their god of death, until the end of time!". Again the language it important. Unmade refers to refers to undoing actions. Regulos is talking very clearly about his realm of death and its inevitable entropic consumption of everything living. Regulos's goal is for death to consume everything. He is talking about how he has shaped the plane of death so that it will never stop consuming souls until nothing but death remains and his goal is ultimately realized.
    Last edited by IonCannon; 04-12-2015 at 12:47 PM.

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  13. #13
    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    Regulos is dead. Dead dead. 'E's passed on! This dragon is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace!

    Or he's just stunned. lol

    In seriousness. Regulos is permanently dead. There's no way he's coming back.
    Araks nightmare engine may recreate Regulos, but it's no resurrection. It's a nightmare version. It's not the real Regulos, nor does it have the same power.

    You also can't take the comic that came out before the game as a source of lore because it was declared non-cannon after the game launched.
    You can take some hints there, and some things are considered true which you can see with the sticky on this forum.
    Though I wish it was because then we might have seen Shadowlands T-T

    However, a disclaimer, I've said it before that CC writes in a way that leaves things open to interpretation and vague enough that he can do something without it being a gaping plot hole (most of the time)

    While for all circumstances Regulos, Greenscale, Maelforge, Laethys and Akylios, the original (for us anyways) dragon "gods" are all dead, there is enough holes that they COULD come back in some form.
    Crucia proves that dragons have souls and their mind/spirit is not permanently tied to their dragon bodies, though most of their power is.
    The lore is vague enough that we don't know 100% what happened to the souls of Regulos, Greenscale, Maelforge (the short story claims to eat his soul but it was just his physical heart) and Laethys. Their spirits could still be out there.
    If they are like ascended, they could still be alive.
    Akylios won't because he was Akvan-like creatures formed into one big being. Possibly Izkinra or whatever the name is (though I assume that dragon is dead too because in Dendrome we saw new dragons for ALL planes, I never fought that raid boss)

    What we DO know is that once a dragon dies, the power and body move around in motes and create a new dragon.
    The true power of a dragon "god" is tied to this cycle, but the mind/spirit is not.

    Crucia has some powers still yes, but she's VERY killable without her original form.
    We never fought a true fully powered Regulos because his dragon body died before the game started.

    So Regulos, the one we know, is dead. His spirit may live on and CC and the devs may use him as another weakened boss, but dragon "god" he is no more.
    This is where I think there is some confusion. You have to view both the spirit and the body as two separate things.
    One, the body, being tied to some grander scheme cycle that we know little about that is the source of the dragon "gods" power.
    Two, the spirit, being a completely separate where it may exist even after the body has been destroyed, but substantially weaker and not much different than any other soul in the Rift world.

    Then of course there's multiple-dimensions and realities... Plenty of holes! lol

    What should be considered is that there SHOULD be new dragon "gods" floating around for the plane of death, water, air, earth and fire.
    Should be anyways, if we are to base our assumptions on the cycle we were shown in Dendrome.....Though I should note the quest to kills those spawns do state "Spawn of Akylios" though it's been stated Akylios isn't a true dragon so that part is probably an oversight and it really should be Izkinra or whatever.

    Just shows the story isn't laid out THAT far all the time.

  14. #14
    Thread of Fate Twinmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardy83 View Post

    You also can't take the comic that came out before the game as a source of lore because it was declared non-cannon after the game launched.
    You can take some hints there, and some things are considered true which you can see with the sticky on this forum.
    Though I wish it was because then we might have seen Shadowlands T-T
    *facepalm* Only the parts of the comics that have been marked non-canon by missdoomcookie in the Clearing the Air thread are non-canon. The rest is most definitely canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by IonCannon View Post
    Ok, I want you to go to this post. Its the official timeline... Do you see where it says 1500 years ago?
    In all of my days, even being in the studio itself in 2010-2011, I have never seen the 1500 year figure thrown around. ._.

    No point in arguing over a speculation because it will just end in a stalemate and repetition of arguments (as I've already begun to do) - I would probably just wait for CC to post and clarify things should he choose. (C'mon Nick - do it! )

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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinmoon View Post
    I would probably just wait for CC to post and clarify things should he choose. (C'mon Nick - do it! )
    He won't. At best he'll comment and say something like "where's the fun in that".

    It's best to assume that unless directly stated in an explanatory way in-game, any possibility is possible.
    A being saying that can't die does not mean they can't die.

    Like I said. CC makes things vague enough that anything is possible and he can change thing without having to worry, though in regards to how dragons work, especially their "souls" it IS a bit of a mess and needs clarification because that one specific lore is all over the place.

    It would be nice if he clarified (even in-game) but I doubt he will.

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