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Thread: Guardian/Defiant - Motivation to play/ Lore Soup

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Guardian/Defiant - Motivation to play/ Lore Soup

    Please bear with me, my mind is all over the place so I may jump from here to there and back again... hope you can make heads or tails of my post.

    What I've understood after reading pretty much everything I could get my hands on (here and on all the material you people linked/compiled (sites/etc)).. is that the world lost against Regulos.. while pumping out Guardians(Ascended) after "The Shade" event and after having them pop out 20 years into the future...?

    As I played the Defiant start area it became apparent that even if the Vigil started creating Guardians they still horribly lost eventually (after 20+the time it takes to reach the Terminus start area time frame) and the entire world was wiped out.. Side note: On terminus we even meet and summarily execute the fallen elven leader Shyla Starhearth... So she was... corrupted by thirst for power by Regulos... oh boy, put the elves to shame <_<, makes me not want to roll and elf.. I'm assuming all Guardian leaders are dead or corrupted also. *they didn't "jump" into the future" like you the player did, and you "meet up with them" 20 years later.. in the Sanctum right ? Only to know they die/get corrupted anyway.. oh joy.

    The action "starts" after the initial start zones of both Defiant and Guardians, 20 years into the future for Guardians (you the player, get thrown into the future or better said "return" from wherever you "lingered", 20 years later) and 20 years into the past after for Defiants, after the world was obliterated... returning to ... set things straight.. how? it's uncertain. The players defiant/guardian meet up in the same time frame but coming from different.. "directions".

    I have a very hard time following the events exactly, to me it seems the only ones capable of "change" are the Defiants ... wrong ? right ?
    As a Guardian I now feel pointless since I know that my attempts are "calculated' into the catastrophical end of the world while as a Defiant you KNOW you were sent into the past past to "rectify" and stop the destruction of Telara... So why would I play Guardian ? (considering I have no taste for "gods" and such, so that's not motivation at all, they failed anyway so some "gods" they were, laughable)..

    What am I missing ? Thoughts?
    Last edited by GabrielK; 01-29-2011 at 10:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    I think it's supposed to be confusing. The Guardian players see it from one side and the Defiants from another. I don't think were supposed to know whose right or what happened.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    There are two separate series of events here. The story in the starting area is what happened without the intervention of ascended. After you're sent back to the past with all the other ascended, hopefully the end of the world can be prevented. There isn't a loop going on. It's diverged storyline type time travel. At the point you're sent back in time the timeline changes.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    Tough topic ... I'm going to try and crack it for you. If anything, hopefully it will help.

    DEFIANT ...
    As a new player you know the world is gone. You have to go back in time and stop Regulos. You know the Guardians failed in the first time-line, BUT they may not this time in the second time-line. This time the Defiants will have Ascended (players), whereas before they did not.

    GUARDIANS ...
    As a Guardian player you know nothing. Now as a lore buster, your trying to figure it out. The guardains failed in the first Defiant time-line. As a new player you play through the begining of that failure. You see the ward cracked / the shade start / and meet the newly ascended, such as Cyril. Then you are wisked away into the future by 20yrs ... ONE YEAR after the fall of Port Scion.

    So, you can see that the Guardians have kept going with time-line ONE and now it is your job to make sure that it does not keep going ... The mass addition of Ascended Players (ie- The Vigil building their army) is NOW to fight Regulos and NOT THE DIFIANT. In time-line number ONE there was NO MASS ASCENDED ARMY OF PLAYERS.

    woosh!
    /wipeforhead
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  5. #5
    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    I wanted to add one more thought to this thread for the hardcore Lore-Busters!

    Yes, the facts are that in time-line ONE ... YOU weren't there to confront Aedraxis, his brother Zareph did it.
    So when you start as a new Guardian player, you actually step into time-line numer two from the begining,
    I understand that. The point I'm trying to make above is a more glossed over/simplistic view. After all, the dev's are trying to show us the story.

    The lore you learn even going into first world zone, pretty much gives you old with new. EXAMPLE: Port Scion is still gone. However, the birdge was blown up this time stopping the Guardains from taking Meridian.
    Last edited by EntreNous; 01-29-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Thanks EntreNous, I've read all your posts, a decent way to look at it, I'm not completely to terms and still feel there are missing bits that make me favor Defiants especially since they are from what I've seen so far... decent people, and not mad men or evil , albeit a bit... chaotic and thus capable of more "evil". And then again I hate being forced into evil (by my standards of morality) quests/chain quests/events for rewards/story advancement so I don't know how that will work out. The Defiants seem the faction that will have such brutal less "to my liking" requests..
    Also I'm more of a chaotic-good alignment as morality so I think I'd fit more with the Defiant then the Lawful Good Guardians.

    Oh well, We'll see what stories the people at Trion unfold for us once the game launches and further down the line as expansions crop up.

    I'm certainly having fun figuring this lore out, so it's all good ^^.
    Last edited by GabrielK; 01-29-2011 at 12:23 PM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    But there was a mass of ascended in the FIRST posiibility of the future. If there were no ascended there wouldn't be so many test subjects for the defiants to create their own Ascension System. So what you say in the first post is right, being a guardian you fail to save the world.

    If you didn't fail then it means the world is save. And as such the defiants don't need to time travel. (It's like 3 options? In one you fail and the defiants send someone back in time, In second the Ascended you saves the world, and the defiants don't need to send someone back in time, 3rd one being you fail to save the world, the defiants sent someone back in time and he saves this world, and as such the gods don't create the ascended because there is no need to, the defiants already saved the world)

    What i actually don't understand is how both the ascended and the defiants show up in the same Time and World. Their stories don't match for me. The game is supposed to be about: Who saves the wordl - The Ascended or the Defiants. But it is impossible with the time travel, because if one succeds the other won't be needed and you destroy the begining of their existence.

    (I just played guardian to lvl 12, and I didn't even travel back in time with the defiants, so I may have understood many things wrong)

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    Rift Disciple Nock's Avatar
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    Interesting. Except that what you are saying is that there was not an army of ascended in the time-line of Terminus (time line 1) but if there were not Ascended then how would Orphiel or Sylvar (sorry on misspellings if there are any) have come up with new Defiant Ascended. The whole premise of Defiant Ascended is in response to Guardian Ascended. Furthermore, the cinematic for the Defiant clearly shows the Guardians dominating the Defiant with thier Ascended. Then the world gets destroyed, and the faiilsafe is kicked on for the new Defiant Ascended (Defiant players).

    Everything is biased toward Defiant saving the world, and Guardians destroying it. I really like Guardians, I like gods and the Guardian races, and imho Sanctum >>> Meridian.But the Guardian story sucks, Defiant's story rocks, the character creation REALLY sucks for Guardian, and is AWESOME for Defiant. Hence the ever growing discrepency in the Guardian vs. Defiant populations. Despite my love for Guardians, all of my friends want to go Defiant (because of the things I've listed...and one friend because he wants a mechanical horse) and I will likely join them.

    That aside, Defiant are the only reason there even IS a second time-line. The first time-line was the failure of the Guardians, and would have been the end of it, except that the Defiant made a second time-line possible. So even if you were right and there was not ascension before (or ascension en masse if that is your difference) the fact remains, this second chance is granted by the Defiant, making thier story/motives/power superior to Guardian. I'm sad to say it, but those are the facts.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nock View Post
    Interesting. Except that what you are saying is that there was not an army of ascended in the time-line of Terminus (time line 1) but if there were not Ascended then how would Orphiel or Sylvar (sorry on misspellings if there are any) have come up with new Defiant Ascended. The whole premise of Defiant Ascended is in response to Guardian Ascended. Furthermore, the cinematic for the Defiant clearly shows the Guardians dominating the Defiant with thier Ascended. Then the world gets destroyed, and the faiilsafe is kicked on for the new Defiant Ascended (Defiant players).

    Everything is biased toward Defiant saving the world, and Guardians destroying it. I really like Guardians, I like gods and the Guardian races, and imho Sanctum >>> Meridian.But the Guardian story sucks, Defiant's story rocks, the character creation REALLY sucks for Guardian, and is AWESOME for Defiant. Hence the ever growing discrepency in the Guardian vs. Defiant populations. Despite my love for Guardians, all of my friends want to go Defiant (because of the things I've listed...and one friend because he wants a mechanical horse) and I will likely join them.

    That aside, Defiant are the only reason there even IS a second time-line. The first time-line was the failure of the Guardians, and would have been the end of it, except that the Defiant made a second time-line possible. So even if you were right and there was not ascension before (or ascension en masse if that is your difference) the fact remains, this second chance is granted by the Defiant, making thier story/motives/power superior to Guardian. I'm sad to say it, but those are the facts.
    Nock, you've stated my concerns and disappointment with the Guardians compared to the Defiants in a more coherent way, awesome! *bows head*
    Last edited by GabrielK; 01-29-2011 at 12:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Adaqshiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielK View Post
    ...
    Well.

    Of course you only got one side of the story if you only played Defiant. The Defiant storyline begins "20 years after 'today'", while the Guardian story begins "20 years ago".

    Ascended are not the same thing as "Guardians". The "Guardians" is an alliance of dwarves, elves and men formed by a mutual faith in the Vigil as the actuators of salvation from the dragons (and Regulos in particular). An Ascended is actually a dead hero/person resurrected by the Vigil to aid in Telara's fight against the dragons. Guardians, due to their faith in the Vigil (a small pantheon of "good gods") are who tend to be resurrected in this way. Defiant, for their "heretical" atheism and blasphemous technology, are not. Instead, the Defiant have found a way to use technology to reproduce the Vigil's resurrection and have created their own Ascended.

    Guardian Ascended find themselves plucked from a pile of corpses by an angelic messenger in the midst of Regulos' invasion of a certain Mathosian city, and are carried away to be reincarnated for the good of Telara. Newly risen Guardian Ascended find themselves vested with a new soul and the task of defeating the invasion which beats at the doors of the cathedral.

    Shyla Starhearth was the high priestess of Tavril (earth-mother-type goddess of the elves), and later took on the epithet "the pentarch" as she became the Vigil's most pious and beloved. Guardian Ascended encounter her in the invaded city, in the chaos of fighting. She is a champion waging war against the evil and destruction of Regulos. We know that the dragons are capable of warping even the most powerful of souls, as evidenced by Crucia, the dragon of Air, who famously enslaved the minds of an entire city... Such is the mighty terror the Guardians courageously battle, knowing that no mortal may stand, and it is only by the grace of the Vigil that Telara may yet be saved.

    After spearheading several crucial victories over the planar invasion's emplacements, and turning back the traitorous Defiant technomage, Orphiel, who was aiding Regulos with his necrotic constructs, the newly Ascended Guardian hero still has the terrible Shade of Regulos to face. Of course, it's history that the Shade was defeated that day, but the battle was titanic. Afterwards, the Ascended hero vanished.

    It would be twenty years until the hero was seen again, apparently whisked away through time by the Vigil to serve again in the hour of the Guardians' most desperate need. The hero finds him/herself under a great bridge that even now lies in ruin and rubble. Not too far distant is a familiar city enshrouded by a different sort of familiar destruction, the cold horrors lurking and writhing in glimpses through the cracks of windows like empty eye sockets.

    The Guardians are all too aware of their own mortal weaknesses and the shameful fall of champions. The tyrant king Aedraxis, the mad elf-prince Hylas -- painful lessons about mortal weakness the futility of their unaided endeavors against the horrors of the Blood Storm. More will fall yet, that is certain, but the Guardians are intent upon atoning for the sins of their fallen, and turning back the Blood Storm with the help of the divine Vigil, that Telara may be saved from destruction!
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  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    After playing through both sides, I have decided that I will not play as Defiant, as I absolutly HATED their story. Also not a fan of their races. Everyone brings up how the guardians failed... well they would never have been put into the position to fail if the leader of the Defiant hadn't turned on that machine that started the mess to begin with

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    I played both sides a lot and read up as much as I could of what lore exists written down/movies.
    And my confusion/disappointment is clearly stated by Nock in his last post. (and visible in my first post too)

  13. #13
    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    In my post I want to clearify something .... about Ascended Army.

    We learn in the Life factory that "Cyril led an army of Ascended against Meridian".
    So, yes there were Ascended and yes there was an Ascended Army of Guardians at one point.

    My post is trying to show that those Ascended weren't the army of PLAYERS, that we have now!!!
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  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke79 View Post
    After playing through both sides, I have decided that I will not play as Defiant, as I absolutly HATED their story. Also not a fan of their races. Everyone brings up how the guardians failed... well they would never have been put into the position to fail if the leader of the Defiant hadn't turned on that machine that started the mess to begin with
    Agreed that the Defiant's folly lead to the destruction... Orphiel's helping Aedraxis that was Regulo's puppet... ...
    Just because he said he would lift the ban on technology ? Was that worth slaughtering so many people ?
    By no means, that's an evil and unwarranted act, his actions were that of a mad man. (Orphiel's actions that is).

    However the defiants played by the player, are not affiliated with Orphiel's group of that time and his past actions as far as I know... and are led by Asha Catari who's goal is the defense of Telara from Regulos (and The Blood Storm in general). However I do agree that her "hatred" of the Guardians is unjustified, whatever punishment they exacted on the defiants was... well, warranted.... But I guess the hate for the Vigil is enough to cloud her judgment.

    However I'm more speaking of the fact that... in the end it only feels like the initial attempt (as EntreNous put it) was failed and it almost feels like you're struggling isn't as significant as that of a defiant player who was sent back in time .

    Anyway, I want to like the Guardians, but I'm just disappointed with the position they're in, not motivating enough perhaps.

    As I'm discovering and putting together a more favorable scenario/vision in my mind, I might end up playing Guardian anyway, there's plenty of road ahead to think about it .

  15. #15
    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielK View Post
    Anyway, I want to like the Guardians, but I'm just disappointed with the position they're in, not motivating enough perhaps.

    As I'm discovering and putting together a more favorable scenario/vision in my mind, I might end up playing Guardian anyway, there's plenty of road ahead to think about it .
    Personally, I think no matter what time-line extravaganza we all try and create, it all comes down to this for the NEW Guardian player ....

    MOTIVATION ...
    Do not forget the fact that the Messenger shows you the prophecy ... it's YOUR job to stop it from happening.

    "Guardian of the Vigil, your sacrifice has saved Telara from destruction, but the world is still in peril. See now with prophetic eyes. The brood stirs... The Ward falls ... and utopia is undone. Mark well this prophecy of the rifts. We have chosen you as an instrument to prevent the coming apocalypse. Go with the grace of the Vigil."

    .... She does NOT show you that you need to get out there and beat down the Defiants and their machines. She shows you the Dragons and says, get out there and clean up this mess. So for me, that is enough to want to play a Guardian as well as a Defiant.

    I love both story lines ... and I play both sides.
    Last edited by EntreNous; 01-29-2011 at 02:13 PM. Reason: typos
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