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Thread: Faction based Races ?????

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    Champion of Telara Ancient's Avatar
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    Default Faction based Races ?????

    I'm having an issue wrapping my brain around this one given the released lore.

    The gods hand pick those who they consider the best of the best to bring back. Why would they limit themselves to three of the six playable races of Telara?

    Same goes for the Defiant.

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    I'm having an issue wrapping my brain around this one given the released lore.

    The gods hand pick those who they consider the best of the best to bring back. Why would they limit themselves to three of the six playable races of Telara?

    Same goes for the Defiant.
    I agree. It's a little too cut & dried for me. The lore states that The Vigil are angry that 3 races chose to not follow them; but, seriously? I find it hard to believe that every member of those races chose the same thing. And it makes no sense at all on the part of the Defiant to assume that every member of the Guardian races should be blamed for the act of the Vigil.

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    Telaran Lowfer's Avatar
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    Well I understand your difficulty with it. To me the simple answer is it's fantasy. It may not make a lot of logical sense but often times fantasy doesn't make sense logically. I know not the best answer but it's most likely the culprit in this instance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    I agree. It's a little too cut & dried for me. The lore states that The Vigil are angry that 3 races chose to not follow them; but, seriously? I find it hard to believe that every member of those races chose the same thing.
    The Defiant chose to pursue technology/magic (or Magitech more precisely) rather than follow the ethereal/spiritual nature that the Vigil believed in. If I recall correctly, I believe I read somewhere in the lore where the use of Magitech was actually forbidden by the Vigil. So in essence, the Defiant can be seen as betraying the Vigil for their desire to pursue Magitech.

    This is of course just what we can make of it so far but it makes perfect sense to me on the surface.

    I could be wrong here Ancient, but I take it as the Gods (Vigil) chose the 3 Guardian races because in their eyes the Defiant decided to betray the will of the Vigil for Magitech therefore creating the duality between the 2 factions.
    Last edited by Airien; 10-02-2010 at 01:52 PM.

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    Champion Airien's Avatar
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    Maybe this will help clear it up a bit for you folks. I found this in another thread about the religous nature of the lore which can be found here :

    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...86-Is-Religion..

    Quote Originally Posted by missdoomcookie View Post
    ... the Defiants turned from the Vigil in order to use magitech, as the Vigil strictly forbade its use, as it burns sourcestone, the raw matter of creation.

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    Shadowlander Sagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    I'm having an issue wrapping my brain around this one given the released lore.

    The gods hand pick those who they consider the best of the best to bring back. Why would they limit themselves to three of the six playable races of Telara?

    Same goes for the Defiant.
    I had the same questions and finally came to a conclusion that makes sense in my mind. If you look at each race having a leader or counsel that governs them it would make sense that the Gods would approach them and not each individual member of a race. If as a counsel these leaders rejected the offer of the Gods then it would make sense that the Gods would then turn their backs on that race.

    It would not surprise me to have NPC's in the game that cross faction's because their beliefs are aligned with that faction. A High Elf becoming disgruntled and leaving to pursue a life of technology with the Kelari as an example.

    That is how I have made it make sense in my head at least. I anticipate that while the core lore has been established, we will continue to get more details over the upcoming years

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    Champion Geekcheck's Avatar
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    I'm seeing more and more why Trion decided to come out with a comic. You guys really need to read the first 2 issues as they answer some of the questions you are asking. Let me see if I can clear up what I have learned.

    The gods hand pick those who they consider the best of the best to bring back. Why would they limit themselves to three of the six playable races of Telara?
    They didn't. But I think this is Trion's way of establishing specific races for each faction. According to the comic, the Vigil didn't pick the best of the best, but rather resurrected those who were already loyal to them. It stands to reason that since certain races did not believe in their sovereignty (or worshiped them), they saw them as unworthy of resurrection through their "divine" power.

    The Defiant chose to pursue technology/magic (or Magitech more precisely) rather than follow the ethereal/spiritual nature that the Vigil believed in. If I recall correctly, I believe I read somewhere in the lore where the use of Magitech was actually forbidden by the Vigil. So in essence, the Defiant can be seen as betraying the Vigil for their desire to pursue Magitech.
    This is true, but it is much more than that. I can only surmise that after the Orphiel created a way to resurrect deceased Telarans from the ether, the Vigil took notice and made it even more of a point to not offer ascension to those races who were not loyal to them. Again the comic quickly explains the animosity that Orphiel and others feel towards the Vigil for abandoning them. Now that the Defiant have a way of bridging the ascension gap with technology, I assume the Vigil are none too pleased and are shunning any race associated with them, regardless of their individual beliefs. This sounds like a severe case of "one bad apple that spoils the bunch."

    The comic seems to be positioning itself to be a clear picture of Telaran history--I suggest anyone interested in lore to read it.
    Last edited by Geekcheck; 10-02-2010 at 07:29 PM.

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    Champion of Telara Ancient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekcheck View Post
    I'm seeing more and more why Trion decided to come out with a comic. You guys really need to read the first 2 issues as they answer some of the questions you are asking. Let me see if I can clear up what I have learned.


    They didn't. But I think this is Trion's way of establishing specific races for each faction. According to the comic, the Vigil didn't pick the best of the best, but rather resurrected those who were already loyal to them. It stands to reason that since certain races did not believe in their sovereignty (or worshiped them), they saw them as unworthy of their resurrection through their "divine" power.


    This is true, but it is much more than that. I can only surmise that after the Orphiel created a way to resurrect deceased Telarans from the ether, the Vigil took notice and made it even more of a point to not offer ascension to those races who were not loyal to them. Again the comic quickly explains the animosity that Orphiel and others feel towards the Vigil for abandoning them. Now that the Defiant have a way of bridging the ascension gap with technology, I assume the Vigil are none too pleased and are shunning any race associated with them, regardless of their individual beliefs. This sounds like a severe case of "one bad apple that spoils the bunch."

    The comic seems to be positioning itself to be a clear picture of Telaran history--I suggest anyone interested in lore to read it.
    Perhaps if the comic were available to everyone. From the PMs and Email I have seen it was only in NA. And limited in Canada. Of course that could have changed since then.

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    Shadowlander Sagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekcheck View Post
    I'm seeing more and more why Trion decided to come out with a comic. You guys really need to read the first 2 issues as they answer some of the questions you are asking. Let me see if I can clear up what I have learned.
    This is good to know. I finally gave up trying to find it locally and ordered in online. Should be here sometime this coming week.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagai View Post
    I had the same questions and finally came to a conclusion that makes sense in my mind. If you look at each race having a leader or counsel that governs them it would make sense that the Gods would approach them and not each individual member of a race. If as a counsel these leaders rejected the offer of the Gods then it would make sense that the Gods would then turn their backs on that race.
    If someone doesn't agree with what their leaders decide, they switch sides. We do it all the time. I get that it's a fantasy and it's just the rules of the game, but in a real world situation people would chose whatever side they want. Plus, the gods wouldn't stop at recruiting the leaders, they'd be poaching players left and right while the defiant tries to sway people over by calling them stupid. I gotta assume the people of Telara are as individualistic as us and not drones.

    Sometimes choosing a side is political, like in EQ2, and sometimes it's nationalism like in warhammer. An ork isnt gonna fight for the empire. In this game, the political choice would have made more sense, but the devs can do what they like. Factions are either nations at war or just idealogical differences.

    I'd imagine what would really happen is some people of the guardian races would choose to shun the gods. Some defiant would embrace them. Then some more, back and forth, back and forth, until both factions have a mix of every race seeing as the races themselves aren't involved in a war of nations.

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    Sword of Telara souper's Avatar
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    Things like this always make me wonder about how much they've had to redo the lore due to gameplay changes. Back in Heroes of Telara you could choose your own faction regardless of race and that obviously isn't the case anymore so I'm always curious as to what they've done.

    Personally, I feel that they've done enough to justify the faction-restricted races. Maybe the Defiant have resurrected a few Defiant-aligned Dwarves but there are so few of them that it wouldn't make sense to allow us to play em. Same thing with the Guardians maybe having a few Eth (who are just humans from a different civilization anyway.) Some of the races even have some really convincing back-stories as to why the majority of their individuals would never join the other faction.

    As far as not allowing us to switch sides after we are resurrected, well, that's harder for the writers to justify. Its all about a gameplay mechanic that the devs may or may not introduce. Just gotta deal with it.

    They could always introduce magical shock collars to keep any potential strays from joining the other faction too. Lore issue solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by souper View Post
    they could always introduce magical shock collars to keep any potential strays from joining the other faction too. Lore issue solved.
    Bzzzzzzzzrt!!!

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekcheck View Post
    According to the comic, the Vigil didn't pick the best of the best, but rather resurrected those who were already loyal to them. It stands to reason that since certain races did not believe in their sovereignty (or worshiped them), they saw them as unworthy of resurrection through their "divine" power.
    Really? The comic states that Guardians are not chosen for being the best but for being the most faithful? Wow! If that's true they have upended the lore already released and had better take down the Guardian Intro video because it is completely wrong.

    I may end up Defiant and I've been leaning Guardian strongly all along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    Really? The comic states that Guardians are not chosen for being the best but for being the most faithful? Wow! If that's true they have upended the lore already released and had better take down the Guardian Intro video because it is completely wrong.

    I may end up Defiant and I've been leaning Guardian strongly all along.
    Not necessarily.

    It's entirely possible that being 'Chosen for being the best of the best' bit is just what the Guardians believe and/or the story the Gods of the Vigil told them. Don't forget that video is told from the perspective of the Guardians.
    Last edited by Kedon; 10-03-2010 at 06:17 AM.

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedon View Post
    Not necessarily.

    It's entirely possible that being 'Chosen for being the best of the best' bit is just what the Guardians believe and/or the story the Gods of the Vigil told them. Don't forget that video is told from the perspective of the Guardians.
    So, the comic basically makes the Guardians possibly complete dupes who are chosen by some unknowable criteria while the Defiant are reknowned? Yeah, that makes things better (sarcasm).

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