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Thread: Shi-Ming Part II

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser JackSteel's Avatar
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    Default Shi-Ming Part II

    So let's start off with these quotes. "shi-ming was something that I dropped into a book somewhere to make the world feel bigger" "It is a place across the sea that traded with port scion, it had a rich culture, strong empire"

    Now let's go back to what CC said in the forums to my last post.

    "While the trade routes to the Shi-Ming seem to have been lost to the ages, I have heard tell from some of the soldiers that have returned from the battle of Port Scion that many of the relics you all have been recovering have in fact been trade goods from that lost land. It appears that the Shi-Ming were amazing sword makers, crafting blades of the finest quality.

    And while the Ascended seem fated to never step foot upon their land, a society of assassins has traveled to Mathosia and Tempest Bay, infiltrating within the ranks of the Ascended. Are they seeking to recover their swords of legend? Or is there some darker purpose behind all this.

    Or is this just all some tale weaved by a merchant prince to inflate the price of some crates of costumes found floating in the waters of the Tempest Deeps?"

    With this in mind, one would imagine that there are assassins skulking around tempest bay with high quality swords, or that there will be soon. Well...
    Shi-Ming Part II-2013-10-27_171828.jpg

    So with that alone we have evidence that the Shi-Ming are trading with the citizens of Telara. Most likely in Tempest bay, Tulan or Fortunes Shore. CC also mentions "Fish stories" so one would only imagine that the Shi-Ming came here by boat, as opposed to porticulum or some other method of transportation. That would mean that if the Shi-Ming were likely to appear anywhere in the game, they would appear in 1 of these 3 locations.

    He also mentioned assassins, which, anyone who has opened the rift store in the last week has seen the "shadow assassin" costume available. They do not specifically say "Shi-Ming" in them, however, it's easily assumed they're part of how the Shi-Ming would look.

    With all of this in mind, This means 1 of two things, the Shi-Ming have opened their gates to trade once again, or there are smugglers among their ranks. Either way, this means that the race is very much alive and not "lost to the ages"".

    Another thing to consider is that he mentioned them infiltrating the ranks of the ascended, which means they likely have ascended of their own. I recall us going over this in the last thread, however, I wasn't aware at the time that the awakened were attempting to make their own ascended as well.

    Where the awakened have failed, who's to say the Shi-Ming haven't succeded?

    Shi-Ming Part II-2013-10-27_190626.jpg

    So at this point I'm left wondering...where's the Shi-Ming story going? It's been resurrected, I'd love to see something done with it.
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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    While I'd love to say they are trying to keep Shi-Ming alive to do something with it, CC probably is just throwing us a bone.

    Being a pessimist, they probably threw up ninja costumes and samurai/ninja blades in the shop because those are popular items, not because of wanting to throw lore hints and tidbits.

    Since 2.5 is about EI, and 3.0 is about the plane of water, if they were going to make Shi-Ming something, it probably won't be for a very long time.
    I'd personally settle with just an EI style zone instead of a whole expansion.

    Other then the brief mention in the Port of Scion book, there still hasn't been any true addition to the game world about Shi-Ming.
    There's also the whole response I got from Daglar who specifically stated that it's unlikely they are going to go back to these places and would prefer to take us to the planes.

    Here's what I think lore wise.
    It was a trade partner with Port Scion, so it would either by North or South of EI, and since Bravene/Dusken is South, that means it's North. Or North-East of Moonshade.
    Which if they have traded with Tempest, it's possible that they went more North (south in relation to where they are on the planet) around the planet to Tempest Bay instead of our South and passing Mathosia and Ember Isle.
    There is no indication that there is a North and South pole like Earth where the passage would be blocked by ice.

    If you look at the planet of Telara in the Edge of Infinity dimension, you'll see see where I believe Shi-Ming is.

    To me Shi-Ming would probably be around the opposite side of the planet to Dendrome, or a little East of it.

    I would LOVE to believe that since 3.0 is dealing with the plane of water, and most likely Akylios in some form (after his death), it would be nice if a zone content update like EI/Dendome was Shi-Ming, since EI and Shi-Ming got cut off because of Akylios's affect on the water ways.
    Of course I'm still waiting for Cliffside Vale and Port Scion itself, so I'm not holding my breath. lol
    Last edited by hardy83; 10-27-2013 at 08:20 PM.

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    Rift Chaser JackSteel's Avatar
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    I'd have to imagine that if that is unfortunately the case, CC knew exactly what was going to be added to the rift store..."Amazing sword makers" , "Assassins" ....oh hey! Look what just showed up in the rift store. That and..."Or is this just all some tale weaved by a merchant prince to inflate the price of some crates of costumes". CC not only knew, but he also knew that his lore was going to be a cash grab =/

    I would love to see the Shi-Ming in game as well, because honestly I think that sun prophet in TB had potential to be a member that randomly appeared. I guess he goes along with the dendrome lore though.

    I think you're spot on as to where it would be and that's an awesome pic!

    It's unfortunate, I spent an hour or two looking through every artifact set I had for a mention of them, afterwards, I checked all the books, and then I decided to check the ports in game to see if there would be at least one npc with a Shi-Ming katana. There wasn't.

    Off topic: This isn't the first I've heard of cliffside vale, however, I know next to nothing about it. Any chance on a brief summary?
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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSteel View Post
    Off topic: This isn't the first I've heard of cliffside vale, however, I know next to nothing about it. Any chance on a brief summary?
    It's also called the planetouched wilds.
    It's the grey "dead" zone east of Droughtlands. It's the original "home" for the Bhami when they first showed up on this planet.
    Not much else is known about it other than they fled there when the rifts came.

  5. #5
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    On the topic of Cliffside Vale, it was mentioned in some lore as being the original home of the High Elves before they moved to Silverwood, and there were originally plans to include it as a zone. However I recall reading somewhere from a Dev that they have scrapped that now and effectively retconned Cliffside Vale. The impression I was under is that it is Gone and will not be making it in game, possibly to be replaced by a different story about where the Elves used to be.
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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Islesi View Post
    On the topic of Cliffside Vale, it was mentioned in some lore as being the original home of the High Elves before they moved to Silverwood, and there were originally plans to include it as a zone. However I recall reading somewhere from a Dev that they have scrapped that now and effectively retconned Cliffside Vale. The impression I was under is that it is Gone and will not be making it in game, possibly to be replaced by a different story about where the Elves used to be.
    Unlike Shi-Ming which was put in the book The Port of Scion to make the world seem a little bigger. Cliffside Vale was indeed an actual leveling zone. It was apparently the first zone to be made actually.
    When they finished the rest of the zones they went back to it and found that the quest structure compared to the other zones and overall make of it just wasn't that good and didn't work with how the game change so they scrapped it.
    They never released the info on what the quests or layout were so we'll never know.
    For what you can see in it in-game, there is only a couple ruins, a destroyed town and a whole lot of unfinished landscape.

    It goes with Port Scion and Shadowlands (original beginner area for Defiants), in that they were actually made, but then scrapped during development.
    Shi-Ming didn't have this luxury. It wasn't made at all.

    This post where CC responds pretty much explains that zone. No it wasn't the home of the Elves apparently.

    Again, I'd love for them to go back to these areas. Cliffside, Scion, Shi-Ming and Shadowlands (which I now consider Telaras moon), but all signs point to them never doing that.

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    Rift Chaser JackSteel's Avatar
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    Thank you for the detailed overview of the area! It does seem strange that they would completely leave the home zone of one race out of the game. Sorta makes me wonder what the Bahmi were doing there before they fled to other areas of telara. as well as what their original settlements would look like.

    Well, here's in hope that they actually do something with the two areas. There's enough back story for both to be very entertaining areas if they're put in game. Hopefully they find some time somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 to actually create these zones.
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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Given that Shi-Ming didn't ever had Ascended (unless the Vigil did something we never knew of), they probably fell. They died.

    Given that it was mentioned in a Port Scion book (predating the rifts I think), and we hear nothing of them after that, its safe to assume they're gone, or corrupted by Death or something.

    I hope we never go their, an asian themed expansion would be bad. Look at WoW.
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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    I would be a happy camper if they introduced a shi-ming. I think rift has prided itself in lending a lot of culture that you see from around the world that we live in, and putting it in the game. From the classic fantasy of silver wood, to ghosty gloamwood (now slightly less gloomy), steam punk tempest bay, or aztecy ruins of ember isle, you have a lot of real life culture styles represented in RIFT. I think rift would be well within bounds to introduce stylistically the asian culture as they have done many others from multiple time periods. Sure I dont think I like wow's implementation of it. But maybe they can be more indiana jones style with it with ruined walls and temples to explore. Who knows. I'd love it if they would even bring the "save a panda" promo's with it again lol. That was one of the funniest announcements they made at the time. Loved it!

    Anyway I'm totally at work killing time, not sure where I was going with this! Happy rifting!

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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    Given that Shi-Ming didn't ever had Ascended (unless the Vigil did something we never knew of), they probably fell. They died.

    Given that it was mentioned in a Port Scion book (predating the rifts I think), and we hear nothing of them after that, its safe to assume they're gone, or corrupted by Death or something.

    I hope we never go their, an asian themed expansion would be bad. Look at WoW.
    Well given that there's no actual lore to Shi-Ming we can't cross out that there aren't ascended, or that the dragons even reached Shi-Ming.
    For all we know, when the dragons came, they moved and took over Dusken and most of Braven, then headed North before they were beaten and trapped, while Regulos was killed and expelled outside the ward, meaning they might have never went South of TB or further North of Mathosia towards Shi-Ming.
    Also the dragons were beaten before Ascended arrived. That's what the souls we use are, the heroes that fought and died beating the dragons during the original invasion.

    Also the name does imply an Asian theme, but Rift doesn't really follow and real world cultural groups without putting some extreme fantasy in it. The closest would obviously be medieval with Mathsians, but it's still pretty high fantasy.
    I guess it could go "Asian" but I would rather like to think that it's name only, and that they are more science based, with alchemy and what not, but knowing sword play that justifies the armour and weapons that went up in the shop, possibly being a race we've always seen, like a variant of Eth or Elves. Maybe a skinnier less stubby short race like Dwarves.
    With buildings that look nothing like Asian architecture.

    I mean with such a lack of lore on it, they could've built giant engines and lifted the whole continent into space and flew away. lol
    Or encased their continent with an impenetrable shield of Diamondillium
    Last edited by hardy83; 10-28-2013 at 12:24 PM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardy83 View Post
    Well given that there's no actual lore to Shi-Ming we can't cross out that there aren't ascended, or that the dragons even reached Shi-Ming.
    For all we know, when the dragons came, they moved and took over Dusken and most of Braven, then headed North before they were beaten and trapped, while Regulos was killed and expelled outside the ward, meaning they might have never went South of TB or further North of Mathosia towards Shi-Ming.
    Also the dragons were beaten before Ascended arrived. That's what the souls we use are, the heroes that fought and died beating the dragons during the original invasion.

    Also the name does imply an Asian theme, but Rift doesn't really follow and real world cultural groups without putting some extreme fantasy in it. The closest would obviously be medieval with Mathsians, but it's still pretty high fantasy.
    I guess it could go "Asian" but I would rather like to think that it's name only, and that they are more science based, with alchemy and what not, but knowing sword play that justifies the armour and weapons that went up in the shop, possibly being a race we've always seen, like a variant of Eth or Elves. Maybe a skinnier less stubby short race like Dwarves.
    With buildings that look nothing like Asian architecture.

    I mean with such a lack of lore on it, they could've built giant engines and lifted the whole continent into space and flew away. lol
    Or encased their continent with an impenetrable shield of Diamondillium
    Given that there's no lore actually proves that they had no ascended. They were wiped out. There are no hints of them anywhere. We heard of Ember Isle, even while it was still underwater.

    I've seen hints of Empyrean power in Mathosia, we just didn't recognize it at the time, and I forget where it is.

    They were more or less wiped out. They were traders, not engineers.
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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    Given that there's no lore actually proves that they had no ascended. They were wiped out. There are no hints of them anywhere. We heard of Ember Isle, even while it was still underwater.

    I've seen hints of Empyrean power in Mathosia, we just didn't recognize it at the time, and I forget where it is.

    They were more or less wiped out. They were traders, not engineers.
    I don't recall any hints of Empyrean technology in Mathosia. I could be wrong, but I don't recall neither the Defiants or bad guys using anything but sourcestone technology on Mathosia.

    And you're right, they could have been wiped out, but being wiped out or surviving still leaves plot holes due to the lack of lore. Even if they died or survived, we would've heard SOMETHING, especially after Akylios was killed, people would've most likely tried to travel there to find out what happened, as they did with EI.

    There would be at least survivors, just like how people on EI fled.

    Anything could've happened because of the lack of lore or story regarding the place. They could've floated up in space, blown up, fell into an infinite vortex of doom. Who knows. Until they actually address it, it's up in the air.

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    Rift Chaser JackSteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    Given that there's no lore actually proves that they had no ascended. They were wiped out. There are no hints of them anywhere. We heard of Ember Isle, even while it was still underwater.

    I've seen hints of Empyrean power in Mathosia, we just didn't recognize it at the time, and I forget where it is.

    They were more or less wiped out. They were traders, not engineers.
    Well we can't say for sure that they weren't. Here's what we know about them by mention of the devs.
    They had a strong empire
    They traded with port scion, that's not to say they were all traders.
    They were amazing sword smiths
    They had a rich culture
    Items from the rift store have been "imported" into our land from theirs (that's not to say they're actually alive at this point, simply to say that we have proof of some of the devs claims)
    They had assassins

    From that we can assume the following:
    1. Scouts found them dead or alive, and brought evidence of their culture back.
    2. They had a strong empire with assassins, so it's safe to say they had a decent military which would be capable of fending off the dragons/cultists had they arrived
    3. There is no way to tell what their strong empire consisted of. They could have had ascended in the same way the awakened wanted to.
    4. They had enough land to form a strong empire on.


    With all this in mind, it's entirely possible that the shi-ming would have had ascended the same way the awakened wanted to (which I'm guessing is some sort of alchemical transformation)
    They had a decent chance of survival, we have no idea whether or not the dragons even touched down on their land, and if they did, I'd have to imagine there are still a few rogue survivors (most likely assassins)
    While it's true that there are very few hints of them in the game, who's to say that they weren't incredibly exclusive in who they presented themselves to and how they did so? From what I can tell, you hear absolutely nothing of them trading with brevane/dusken.
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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    And again. The original heroes that defeated the dragons the first time around were NOT ascended. They were mortal heroes.
    Those are the souls you use to fill your ascended body.
    So it's possible Shi-Ming had heroes strong enough to, at the very least, defend against the dragons.

    Another piece of lore they should expand.

    It's probably best to think they were completely obliterated simply because it's unlikely we'll ever see the land, but it's not entirely out of possibility that they survived in some form.

    Dusken completely fell and people still survived. Tempest Bay never fell, and neither did most of Bravene until some weirdo destroyed the barrier.
    It's totally possible.

    If lore wise the shop items are indeed from Shi-Ming, then the continent does exist and people have made it there and back in some way, so it at least exists. lol
    Last edited by hardy83; 10-28-2013 at 01:46 PM.

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Still not sure, but even if they were amazing sword makers, well, they weren't ascended. They didn't build ascended machines and I'm guessing they weren't blessed by the vigil. And we saw how well the Awakened created ascended (they didn't).

    Or is this just all some tale weaved by a merchant prince to inflate the price of some crates of costumes found floating in the waters of the Tempest Deeps?"
    There's your explanation. Were they from Shi-Ming? Maybe. Is Shi-Ming still around? Who knows. This was all spouted by a lore dev based on a single line in a book. He even said that "[he] added Shi-Ming to the book to make it seem as if the world was bigger, to add depth to Telara."

    The Shi-Ming story will probably never be visited. They were wiped out.

    Now remember, the "Brevanic Empire" was wiped out. All of Dusken was destroyed by Regulos' Shapers and most of Brevane fell to Salvarola's Awakened. Maybe they're still there, but kind of hidden. The 'assassins' if they're actually Shi-Ming (hell, maybe that's how we got the soul, anyone have the soul book??), could be collecting their swords to bring home for their legacy, or the empire could still be alive, or it could be nothing.

    Nothing is what I think.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

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