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Thread: Why I prefer Guardians and guardian lore and some thoughts.

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    Shield of Telara Questoften's Avatar
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    Default Why I prefer Guardians and guardian lore and some thoughts.

    I prefer the guardians for a few reasons, one is that I am more drawn to the idea of classical mythology and mythos in fantasy, another is that I prefer the storyline and find the lore characters more relatable to and appealing. Third is that the quest content gives me a better overall feeling, and my favorite race happens to be a guardian race and I will get into why.


    The concept of ascended of the vigil appeal to me, I guess I see them in a classical herculean perspective only without the conflict with the gods. Devine hero and heroines, who are just, true and right, of a brighter world. I think they will evolve to join the gods in the end.

    Yet at the same time chosen for there might and not there virtue, which is actually more realistic when looking at a few of the better known mythical hero's and adds a little complexity. There mostly on the right side of things but not cut and dry, black and white.

    The defiant are likewise not the bad guys. The Idea of magic and technology is actually very cool, and the defiant resident dark elves have there appeal as well. I have one who I adore. They are the fallen of the elves who evolved down a different path and became something more by there, daring, creativity and the force of there will in following there own path.

    That said I don't like the feeling of the defiant side, it seems more base and less magical, the npcs, story lines, quests, don't give me as much of a good feeling, If they were dark in a classical since yet more asthetic they might in another way.

    Its not about there world view/values from a real world perspective as much ether overall, its just strictly speaking in fantasy not what I'm looking for.

    As a side note nether the world view or the guardians or the defiants is something I would support in real life, both are open minded in ways, close minded in other major ways. Both are fanatics in a different senses.

    Also the guardians have the high elves, and I was always a elf fan in fantasy and about every mmorpg I have ever played. I like elf lore in general and that's not just confined to rift.

    As far as I'm concerned the elves and there stories are the main intrest which has never been a supported viewpoint in any mmorpg, because while people like fantasy most are not imagnitive enough to be able to pretend to the degree that they could relate primarly to the elves and the fey. That's why most pick human characters. I guess when it comes to fantasy I go all out.

    Yet at the same time need to relate in a sense, the character I play has to at least be more humanoid if a fantasy creature than say animal races like pandas and talking cows in wow. Even I have my limits. Also I like pretty things and talking animals don't qualify unless its a supporting charcter in a fairy tale or a npc in a kings quest game.
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    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    I could not disagree more. While its fine to cling to the idea of purity in high fantasy the pristine nature of the world is truly often bleak in comparison to a modern values system. This idea the world is black and white, that good and evil are so obvious simply does not exist and it certainly doesn't for the world of Telara. In the case of the Guardian it is outright racism and religious fanaticism that has permeated throughout their their society. Anyone who doesn't follow the Vigil is branded a heretic and worthy of extermination. Worse yet the people, the ascended, that are products of Magitech are seen abominations in the eyes of the Vigil and Guardians. It is outright heresy to attempt to replicate the miracles of gods and those who are the by product of it are not people they are impure monsters that must be slain.The Guardians and the Vigil have no problem with purifying there world through adjunct genocide in what they perceive as a holy mission.

    This is not a defense of the Defiant. The factions of Rift are both do what they think is right in terms of their greater goals. The greater goal is the path is that to God-hood, in that sense you are correct. The only question is do you achieve it through creativity, ingenuity, and dangerous recklessness or through doctrinal discipline, divinity, and fanaticism. its just a matter of what road you take.

    Edit: Defiant are way hotter.
    Last edited by IonCannon; 08-03-2013 at 06:20 AM.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Thanks for you thread OP.

    I gotta agree with both of you. For the record:
    -My first main was Maeloda, a Mathosian Guardian Mage, and I did nearly every Lv 1-50 quest (no Ember Isle) before deleting him. Lv 50.
    -My current main Maeloda is a Kelari Defiant Rogue, and I've had him for a longgg time now, just missed the first few patches of the game (created him around the Ember Isle/War of Wanton Maw time). I've done nearly every quest in the game on him, and just finished Dendrome main quest line, Lv 60. I plan on faction changing him in order to get some Guardian story absorbed finished (this is my completionist character) and all the achievements I can get. Once I have switched factions and done all I wanted, I'll go back to Defiants, and consider this part of his personal journey. Lv 60, nearly 1/2 of PA done on him.
    -I have a Guardian Story Alt, Mathosian Guardian Cleric, and he's only totally done Silverwood, and is in the middle of Gloamwood. Lv 25.
    -I have a Elf Guardian Mage (Harbinger) on a PvP shard just to have fun with. Lv 15.
    I have a Bahmi Defiant Mage (Chloromancer) to see the Defiant storyline with a new take after so many months, and to have a Mage character on Faeblight. He may end up faction switching for good, eventually, like my last Guardian Warrior (to fill out the classes) may end up faction switching to the Defiants.

    So... I'm getting plenty of exposure to both factions. The only thing I'm missing is EI+SL for Guardians, but most of SL is very cross-faction in nature, except for a few quests.

    I appreciate your take OP. I first chose Guardians because, at the very least, they were concerned with the PURITY of Telara. Over time, we learn that this purity is very real, and the 6 planes are constantly trying to tip the balance to their side. Without the purity, the world will very quickly open itself to great horrors, possibly even bigger than the dragons, because there's nothing to hold Telara intact compared to other worlds in the Cosmos.
    By now, I see this as a very important value that the Defiants just gloss over. The Defiant would rather just have super powerful tech and ascend to Vigil-power-hood to combat threats, rather than simply have an intact and powerful *world* on their side. What use is saving Telara if it isn't a safe and happy place for all?

    Hell, to address the racism, only the Elves practice it avidly, and the Mathosians casually, and the Dwarves barely. And even then, they were ok with Bahmi having a role in the north, and their tribes in the south, and Eth having a second-place role (which as we have on Earth, would eventually mean that they get equality, right?), and Kelari were an Elven issue.
    What I mean is that it was sucky, but in the Guardians' eyes, what the Defiants are doing in response, is grossly disproportional. To them, it looks like the Eth are trying to create another magitech empire but even bigger than before (and they are), the Kelari are trying to spite the Elves more and join the Eth in that (and they are), and the Bahmi are mutant lapdogs that follow the Eth mindlessly (and if you didn't know better by being there, they would look like that).

    So I get it. I think the racism is highly more on the Guardians towards the Defiants, but I get it.

    What I DO kinda like, is how over time, the factions, regardless of the 'discordance of Port Scion', eventually do come to first temporary understandings, but eventually in Dendrome, more true understandings. The Guardians are starting to get that yes, tech exists and can be bad, but tweak it a little and it probably won't be, and may even save your hide, and Defiants are getting that the Vigil really does bless and formed Telara into a highly magnificent world, and if their guidance helped the Brevanes from total annihilation, maybe it's ok for the Guardians to follow them, even if they don't. This understanding would never have happened if the dragons and Alsbeth didn't die over time, but now, in Dendrome, we're allowed to see a flash of light and peace, before probably falling into the depths and darkness of the Plane of Water :P

    Going through Defiant quests again, the Defiant mostly have the 'bad' portion of them sequestered into an office (the Unseen, Planar College, etc), while the average Defiant acts more like a volunteer soldier that is trying to make sure their land never falls again. On the other hand, the Guardians have fanaticism spread out throughout most of their population to some degree (from an outsider perspective, they do seem cultish),

    I think it's a great irony that each faction for a while saw the other as no better than one of the planar cults. Guardians thought that towards the Defiants for their embrace of magitech. Defiants think that towards the Guardians for their overall unwavering following of the Vigil. Once it clicks in that they both have the 'connecting factor' of Ascended, understanding starts happening (Fire Saga), and

    I prefer the Defiant story, and Guardian lore.
    -The Vigil fascinate me, and there's still very limited info on their nature. They interest me far more than magitech stuff, because magitech tends to be handwaves with techno-fiction terms, while at least magic in Rift is explained with an in-universe set of rules and tropes.
    -But the Defiants as a group are more interesting, and each character in it has a story I want to explore (like Sylver in Ember Isle). The Guardian leaders and characters all seem one note, with maybe the exception of Shyla up til Dendrome. Cyril? God, he seems like nothing. Sure he's powerful, is known for virtue, blah blah, but I see nothing interesting about him. Maybe in the one sliver raid with him? I dunno, I've never done it.

    I find that when I want to create a more individual character story, I go with Defiant, and if I want to be part of a larger unified force and their presence in the world (but not their story), I go with Guardians. This is also ironic, because the Defiants are presented as the 'new Horde', but they are in fact the 'alliance' between each other and neutral factions and the have more intimate stories for the most part. While the Guardians are presented as the 'new Alliance', but they are in fact closer to a 'horde' of religious soldiers that all but totally annex the lands they come upon and have stories that always round about to the 'Guardians' rather than just the characters (even Shyla's story always leads back to GuardiansVigilGuardians, not herself and what she might individually think).

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara Questoften's Avatar
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    To be honest The defiant while not exactly like this, is closer in viewpoint to PC new age real life everyday people in some respects and in fantasy it bores me a bit, like playing a human.

    The only thing interesting about them is the Kalari story and magitech, because the idea of magical technology has always been appealing to me.

    There is something to be said for there view in part from a real life perspective of course, its not in defiance of reason or logic, even if its limited in other respects, but for a fantasy seeker it leaves something to be desired.

    You don't have to belive in religious fanaticism to support the guardians in a game, its all about mythos and exsperencing something you don't in real life. Its more fun that way.

    Its not about good or bad guys in eq2 I played both a Dark elf of nerik in service to the god of hate Inuruk, and the evil queen, and A high elf from the snowy upbeat land of new halas in service of love, hope and happiness.

    There is no real good and evil side in rift though. Reguardless to me its just about the fantasy.
    Though I admit the guardian said makes me feel better, more like a hero, and it cheers me up.
    I feel more like a Real ascended too, more so being a high elf from a fantasy perspective.

    I know its strange and I'm not knocking defiant characters because I have a few and my second favorite character is my defiant Kalari mage.

    People say rifts not high fantasy and I get what there saying but also consider: *points at fey, saytars, elves, gods, and undead running around* I think in some respect it qualifys as high fantasy at least by my definition.

    Even magic has a exsplanation, within its fictional systems, that dose not make it any less magical, and the concept of the planes and even defiant tech also qualifies as fantasy.

    Also really the guardians are getting to be a little less fanatical if you follow the developing story as of late and a little less racist, in excepting former defiants that wish to change factions.

    They seem pretty cool with empyrean tech, there not exactly luddites, and I don't see new quest chains to burn eths at the stake in tempest bay at high noon. (my tactition eth would not like that too much).
    Last edited by Questoften; 08-04-2013 at 01:38 AM.
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    Ascendant July13th's Avatar
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    I personally prefer the Defiant storyline and attitude. I do want to know more about the Vigil (please Trion) but Guardians need to accept some Defiants and their practices as they know that they fail (hopefully some of the new Guardian Eths from the future tells them). Guardians need to keep the Defiants under supervision but without them there the same story would play out.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by July13th View Post
    I personally prefer the Defiant storyline and attitude. I do want to know more about the Vigil (please Trion) but Guardians need to accept some Defiants and their practices as they know that they fail (hopefully some of the new Guardian Eths from the future tells them). Guardians need to keep the Defiants under supervision but without them there the same story would play out.
    I think with faction switching existing now (I'm sad there isn't a short questline about it.. like in other more EQish games), I think Trion would be remiss not to address that factor

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    Shield of Telara Questoften's Avatar
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    The idea of a Kalari guardian, who rejoined the high elves is to delicious too pass up. I don't want my main Kalari to switch at least I don't think but I might make one just to do that with a story. Even if there is no quest content I can make my own story. Maybe she could even get a high elf husband lol.
    Last edited by Questoften; 08-05-2013 at 04:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Questoften View Post
    because while people like fantasy most are not imagnitive enough to be able to pretend to the degree that they could relate primarly to the elves and the fey. That's why most pick human characters..
    That's a rather condescending view of 'most players'.

    Fact is, most do not RP in any real sense, certainly not to the point where they 'pretend' to be their 'toon': I don't RP at all, though I often do have some vague ideas about 'who' my character is, they're pretty shallow.

    I think 'most' players play humans because most players ARE humans and don't feel the need or desire to have a character that's anything else.

    Moreover, for me there are aesthetic reasons I never play male elves, and in Rift I can't bring myself to play a dwarf, and male Blood Elves in WOW were another 'no no': in all cases the animations just suck so badly I just couldn't stare at them day in day out.

    I do have elves, but then I like to have all races (when I can) simply for 'alt variety'.

    OTOH I LOVE Hobbits in LOTRO, Asurans in GW2, Gnomes and Goblins in WOW for the opposite reasons: the animations are amusing, the dialog lines 'little people' get are often the funniest in the game. However, when I'm playing a Hobbit I do not pretend I'm a Hobbit.

    You're confusing a play style (RP) with an ability think outside oneself (imagination), someone can be highly imaginative without the need to play at "let's pretend".

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    Shield of Telara Questoften's Avatar
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    Edit:

    Would not it be cool to be a Kalari and say I'm going to mess with my planar stuff command my spirits and go on being a Kalari in all respects, yet I side with the vigil, and want to rejoin my high elf ansestors while honoring my Kalari self? Kind of like your just going to have to Accept me, I'm still a Kalari but I'm with you, what are you going to do about it?


    That's a rather condescending view of 'most players'.

    Fact is, most do not RP in any real sense, certainly not to the point where they 'pretend' to be their 'toon': I don't RP at all, though I often do have some vague ideas about 'who' my character is, they're pretty shallow.

    I think 'most' players play humans because most players ARE humans and don't feel the need or desire to have a character that's anything else.

    Moreover, for me there are aesthetic reasons I never play male elves, and in Rift I can't bring myself to play a dwarf, and male Blood Elves in WOW were another 'no no': in all cases the animations just suck so badly I just couldn't stare at them day in day out.

    I do have elves, but then I like to have all races (when I can) simply for 'alt variety'.

    OTOH I LOVE Hobbits in LOTRO, Asurans in GW2, Gnomes and Goblins in WOW for the opposite reasons: the animations are amusing, the dialog lines 'little people' get are often the funniest in the game. However, when I'm playing a Hobbit I do not pretend I'm a Hobbit.

    You're confusing a play style (RP) with an ability think outside oneself (imagination), someone can be highly imaginative without the need to play at "let's pretend".
    I just like elves astheticly, play what you like, my viewpoints are just my opinions, and not all encompassing fact.
    Last edited by Questoften; 08-05-2013 at 04:18 AM.
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    Ascendant July13th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    I think with faction switching existing now (I'm sad there isn't a short questline about it.. like in other more EQish games), I think Trion would be remiss not to address that factor
    I was disappointed that there was no betrayal quests that EQ2 had. It does not need to be a huge thing but something would have been great.

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    Shield of Telara Questoften's Avatar
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    I would however like a bit more new, positive, high elf lore, guardian side. I just love my elves, They are one reason I invest so much time and money in rift. They are so elegant, agile, and magical. Really they just give me a good feeling, if I were a sim it would be + mood every time I login to my high elf main. I really care about the character, so want them to do well, and have all they can. I realize I'm in the minority, and others are going to be focused on the mathosians but more elf lore would not hurt, would it?
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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Questoften View Post
    I would however like a bit more new, positive, high elf lore, guardian side. I just love my elves, They are one reason I invest so much time and money in rift. They are so elegant, agile, and magical. Really they just give me a good feeling, if I were a sim it would be + mood every time I login to my high elf main. I really care about the character, so want them to do well, and have all they can. I realize I'm in the minority, and others are going to be focused on the mathosians but more elf lore would not hurt, would it?
    It's just today that it was outright confirmed to me via an artifact set that the Lycini (it also confirmed that the people of the original civilization, not just humans, are 'Lycini') also included High Elves. I guess just 'elves' then.

    I mean I guessed it since I saw a Pelladane Recon elven NPC, but it could have been a fluke. They're rare and don't have a civilization though, compared to the more organized and reclusive (until recently) elves of Mathosia.

    (also, I guess that makes Mathosia originally with Elves and Dwarves, Brevane with Humans and maybe Elves, and Dusken with Humans and maybe Elves. I wonder if there's a 4th continent with Dwarves and Humans, or originally all 3?)

    I would support more elf lore. It's why I would love it if we found out that all the Telaran races originated from somewhere else, but were just recreated by the Vigil when they used creative powers. That would make Elf lore, Tavril lore. Maybe Tavril was originally an elf? So many questions

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    Rift Master Luteuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    I would support more elf lore. It's why I would love it if we found out that all the Telaran races originated from somewhere else, but were just recreated by the Vigil when they used creative powers. That would make Elf lore, Tavril lore. Maybe Tavril was originally an elf? So many questions
    Well maybe we will see that soon...Seems like GSB was Elves, RoS was Mathosian human, HK was dwarf, ID was Kelari, FT was Eth (all the tech), EE was Bahmi because everything was purple. okay maybe not

    anyways, I would love love love to see more elf lore and Cyril and Shyla and Borrin.
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    Shield of Telara Questoften's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luteuel View Post
    Well maybe we will see that soon...Seems like GSB was Elves, RoS was Mathosian human, HK was dwarf, ID was Kelari, FT was Eth (all the tech), EE was Bahmi because everything was purple. okay maybe not

    anyways, I would love love love to see more elf lore and Cyril and Shyla and Borrin.
    Shyla is adorable!
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    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Questoften View Post
    Shyla is adorable!
    Asha and Anthousa make her look like a troll...

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