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Thread: New Ascended?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default New Ascended?

    Hey guys, I've been looking into this, mostly due to my loregeek nature and wanting to know stuff about the game but I've been unable to find any information on it even though I would have expected someone somewhere to have asked the question before.

    Is it possible for new Ascended to arise? For example, if a non-ascended were to die, would the gods be able and/or willing to Ascend them, as long as they had a reason to?

  2. #2
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    A heaping helping of oxygen, a dash of carbon and hydrogen and several other elements are all it takes to create a freshly-baked ascended. Be careful to follow the recipe though
    if you screw it up you might end up with a whole batch of politicians or lawyers. In that case itís best to just throw it out and start over.


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    if i was able to get into game you would have been spared this
    sorry
    who took my names!

  3. #3
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Technically, yeah.

    However, if an Ascended were to 'die', imo one of the following would have to happen:

    -soul is separated from body, soul destroyed
    -soul is weakened, crushed, and the body dies, possibly turning Ascended into a wandering spirit
    -related to the last one, the soul is incredibly corrupted and the body vessel dies, turning the Ascended into a more powerful, yet more vulnerable being (more planar than multi-Planar/Ascended)

    None of these are exactly conventional deaths. Maybe there's other methods, but Ascended cannot die through normal means. If they're cut apart, their spirit will still be intact and lively enough to return to a soul/spirit healer, who will (off screen) reconstitute the Ascended's body quickly. The method of this is pretty handwaved :P

    But anyway, 'death' for an Ascended is less body-death, and more soul-death.

    So if a soul death happened, it would depend on the method. If Regulos ate the soul, it's likely be gone for good. If it was just critically shattered, then maybe it could be collected back together and reforged. I believe 'souls' are just a more neutral form of energy (related to the Plane of Death but not necessarily native to it), and like any of the planar energy, or any energy PERIOD in Rift, it could be collected from sources and fixed up into a body.

    MOST of this is guesswork.. but my thoughts are: Yes, Ascended could theoretically be arisen. However, the trouble and effort to do this (even by the Vigil) would mean that person would have to be super important.

  4. #4
    Ascendant
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    A recent lore live streem said no... no new ascended. Sir martyn in the guardian story line and the fact that defiants are bringing back the method from the future says yes you could be a new aascended

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    I think the question was concerning if a non-ascended died, so my answer is from that aspect.

    Although I'm not an expert in lore like others in the forum, my personal opinion is that I hope there can be new ascended. I'm not meaning NEW SOULS, but new ascended. It seems strange to me that as fragile and turbulent as Telara remains, the gods (from guardian aspect) would only choose a finite number and would only ascend them at a particular point in time and only then. I would hope that they would see other beings since Aedraxis' betrayal that were also worthy and will continue to find those for years from now. That is my hope, and I cannot offer anything in-game or in-lore to support such a case.

    I also look to the game mechanics itself. I know you can't always take things literally in MMO's, but we still see "new" ascended being resurrected at Divine Landing even after other ascended (level 60's) have already come through. Of course, one could argue that prior ascended didn't do their job very well if Sanguine Shores is still plagued by beings from the plane of fire. Still, in a metaphorical sense, you can't help but wonder, "Hey, what are you doing here? I got rez'd a year ago. Did you get forgotten?" Maybe they didn't get forgotten. Maybe they are new ascended.

    And even though we haven't played through them all, there might be other realities whereby ascended were created or are being created in them too. Who knows --- our "reality" may not even be the "real" reality. Just like we encounter those in Fall of Lantern Hook, others might be encountering us from their "reality" in the same manner. Oooooo - now that's deep.

    Like I said - just my hope and personal opinion.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    I believe the Vigil were only able to use so much power to bring back the Ascended from the specific location of Stillmoor, 20 years ago, because the Ward was so thin there, and so many subjects were in the area.

    I guess they might be able to do the same, in other areas where the Ward is extremely thin. However, they didn't make Ascended for, for a reason. In a way, this looks like an act of desperation for Telara. Are the Vigil actually Ascended themselves? Maybe they've had a negative experience with one of their own (no spoilers), and don't want to take TOO many chances?

    So yea, while I think that the Vigil CAN bring Ascended back, in potential very specific situations (remember that the Vigil's power is super limited where the Ward is powerful), it may not happen.

    ~~~~

    In terms of outright NEW Ascended, I'm sure that's possible, but the Vigil was generally seemingly thoughtful about who they brought back:

    -they're racist to an extent (so are the Defiants); only Mathosians, Elves, and Dwarves. The Eth, Bahmi, and Kelari are by and large, antagonistic to whatever aims the Vigil have
    -they usually had to have fought against the Blood Storm. The Ascended we play as, come from the battle over Stillmoor. However, the old Boar Spear lore story, shows that some Ascended are possibly specifically chosen to be useful tools, and it doesn't exactly matter if they had a shady past in itself, or didn't heavily participate in the war

    So I think if they were to bring an Ascended back:
    -anything to do that with, would have to be in an area where the Ward is super weak. This would not be in regular rifts, I think, but in times where rifts plague Telara, like the River of Souls world event, or Waves of Madness, or whenever a super strong zone event happens (in the timeline) where rifts are covering the zone.
    -the Ascended has to be worth it. That might include the strength of the Ascended's character (moral and physical), but we also don't know if the Vigil expends any form of energy in bringing someone back as Ascended. All we have is the fact that Guardian Ascended are limited, and that Defiant Ascended were brought back by *consuming* sourcestone. We don't know what the Vigil do.

    ~~~~

    As a separate issue, I want to address there being new Ascended in Freemarch and Silverwood. Two facts:
    -the zones go CHRONOLOGICALLY. As in, by Lv 60, Silverwood does NOT look like it does in our playfields, but we're not allowed to see the rate of its progression and change. Only massive overhauls to the game world, or especially a Cataclysm type game patch, would reflect the changes the happened to Silverwood.
    -ALL of the story is from the POV of our characters. That means, from my POV, all of you are just 'fellow Ascended', and I was the one who lead the charge against the Endless at King's Breach, the one who saved Brevane from the Awakened mutants, and who shattered Aedraxis's Regulos-infused corpse in order to prevent Regulos from returning. NOT you.
    -However, this is also true from your POV. You're the one who stopped Regulos. You're the one who saved Brevane. Etc. Everyone else can be important, but not the star of the show like you are.

    So to put those all together, I think it's pretty safe to say that Ascended are limited, and after the events of the Tempest Bay Chronicle (where Crucia was bombing and KILLING all Ascended that were not you, the raiders at Frozen Tempest, and the ones adventuring in other lands), show that lorewise, the Ascended are still a significant population, but are gradually getting weeded out by events, and only your own protagonist character is 'ready' to face increasing threats to the world.

    To be clear:
    -in the case of Silverwood, I believe that for a vague time after you arrive, other Mathosian Ascended (that are not the first waves, like Shyla/Cyril/Borrin and others) awaken. A number of Guardian Ascended survived and stayed awake during the Stillmoor events and went on to Port Scion and then Sanctum, but most were brought in by the Messengers. We play the 'first' to arrive of this wave, but others arrive over time. Obviously, this is a limited number.
    -in the case of Freemarch, I believe there are likely very limited specific Terminus timelines anchored to Freemarch in they way that they're connected to our own game timeline. As such, we're playing the 'first' Ascended to arrive, and for a vague time afterward, other Ascended arrive, but eventually it stops, just like with Silverwood. We probably have the same amount of Ascended as Guardians, just to keep it equal.

    The big point I want to make is that there is no evidence at all that 'more' Ascended arrived. As far as we know, all Ascended hanging out in Tempest Bay, are all from Divine Landing and Ark of the Ascended, from a lore (not specific RP) standpoint. But in the storytelling, the character you play as, is the protagonist and the greatest Ascended that is rising through the ranks and doing the most important stuff, as you progress.

    In my head, Silverwood is now:
    -fairly peaceful around Divine Landing (both forces having set up truce and Ascended not really arriving anymore, and the Vigil Messenger having other things to do)
    -Argent Glade is safe, but more regularly occupied and controlled by Guardian forces
    -the goblins have retreated, and were then defeated in Darkening Deeps in Gloamwood
    -Hylas vacated Silverwood with the majority of his forces that were not killed as you were questing, and the remnants were mostly killed off or reconverted to Vigil worship since Life Saga and the Dragon Mote world event
    -Sanctum is even stronger and more secure than when you first visit it (as a Lv 15ish)
    -rifts have slowed down significantly, due to Ascended's actions against them, the cults that try to encourage their proliferation, and in strengthening Ward boosting sourcestone footholds

    So if a hypothetical Silverwood Chronicle, or even an epic questline (to some degree) happened, it would try to reflect that. A Chronicle would be in a more peaceful time (even if shattered by the events in that Chronicle, for example), and an epic questline would try to not involve itself in more timeline-centric areas like the Divine Landing
    Last edited by Maeloda; 07-31-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Oh, and yes, some ARE visiting our timeline.

    With Omen Sight on, we see another Orphiel tinkering with our Poor Tom in Sanctum. It explains how he gets his visions (not exactly Vigil inspired..) - he sees other timelines due to Orphiel experimenting with his mind, and how it perceives timelines.

    (That 'other timeline Orphiel' could theoretically be our own and not another, either going on 'field trips' from his tower, or from the future, or from another future timeline branch. We don't know. It would be cool if Orphiel is doing this, in order to understand how HE could more safely perceive timelines and not be limited by mortal POV - because the Vigil likely at least precieves multiple timelines and is thus able to share prophecy.)

    This kinda makes all of Fall of Lantern Hook, Orphiel's doing. One, through messing with Poor Tom who talks to Guardians, and two, through himself telling Defiants to go.

    That said, it could also be still the Vigil's doing. Maybe they're aware of the interference with Poor Tom, but still use that as an opportunity to communicate with Tom to share a message to the Guardians? (Like, "This is what happens if you fail against the Blood Storm".) That would make this still, the Vigil's doing, even though an Orphiel started it.

    ~~~~

    When it comes to slivers, I think we're REALLY there, but our 'reach' is limited. It's like that Orphiel in Sanctum (with Omen Sight on), but more powerful, because we're physically there.

    Dimensions are pocket timelines (if that), and more like a mix of slivers and how the Fae use magic to transport everywhere with more unknown means, and to create pocket realms that seem to defy logic. Heck, after watching True Blood and remembering that the fae there have a whole other VERSION of the world to explore and live in, it kinda explains their presence in Dendrome.
    They probably entered the 'fae realm' and teleported from there, and then returned to main-Telara into Dendrome directly. The reason they would return and not stick put in the Realm, would be because Telara is much more vivid of an experience, and mortals are..fun.
    Last edited by Maeloda; 07-31-2013 at 10:09 AM.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Awesome guys, thanks for all the input. I'm taking it all into account. Hopefully the theories won't be needed, but I'll keep all this in mind ^.^

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    As a separate issue, I want to address there being new Ascended in Freemarch and Silverwood. Two facts:
    -the zones go CHRONOLOGICALLY. As in, by Lv 60, Silverwood does NOT look like it does in our playfields, but we're not allowed to see the rate of its progression and change. Only massive overhauls to the game world, or especially a Cataclysm type game patch, would reflect the changes the happened to Silverwood.
    -ALL of the story is from the POV of our characters. That means, from my POV, all of you are just 'fellow Ascended', and I was the one who lead the charge against the Endless at King's Breach, the one who saved Brevane from the Awakened mutants, and who shattered Aedraxis's Regulos-infused corpse in order to prevent Regulos from returning. NOT you.
    -However, this is also true from your POV. You're the one who stopped Regulos. You're the one who saved Brevane. Etc. Everyone else can be important, but not the star of the show like you are.
    I think I did include in my hope-only-not-lore-based answer that I understood you couldn't take things literally in a MMO, i.e., you as a player are indeed progressing through the game and changing the world even though the world itself may not reflect that. Sorry to have ruffled some feathers on that point. My comments about lower level ascended still arriving weren't offered to show my stupidity on the limitations of a game either. I get they are new players and have to experience the world just like we did. Hence, the game world can't be altered. Yeah, I get that. Heck, even in WoW, we're still killing Illidan six years later. Nevertheless, the game is about interaction and POV......and from MY POV, I encounter ascended that are both weaker and stronger than me. I guess it's all about perception and your choice of that perception. As I said, my prior thoughts were on a personal level - and not to give an official lore answer. I guess I'll keep those thoughts to myself from now on.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Sorry - I did post some stuff in caps, but feathers were not ruffled! I was only putting emphasis, when I should have maybe used italics or bold font. And I'm not calling or thinking of anyone as stupid in this thread. In fact, I liked your post a lot.

    ~~

    I don't think Ascended see other Ascended with levels or raid frames around the character portrait. We see Asha with low level HP in Terminus but megaultrachicken9000 HP in Meridian. But I..actually totally agree. There is an immersion/perception issue as the player, to see these low level 'characters' (instead of 'player avatars', I mean) arrive, and one has to willingly suspend disbelief. "I guess since you're a Lv 15 character, you're still in the Silverwood 'chapter'"
    It's a lame sacrifice made in order to allow us all to play in the game 'sandbox' (through its more like fitting us all on the same roller coaster, I guess, lol)

    It's part of why I actually have a distaste for linear main plot storytelling in at least open world MMOs and for character level systems. Kinda throws me off until I decide to ignore it.

    Don't keep your thoughts to yourself.. I don't think I said anything that said anything close to that . I clearly missed your intentions and point, after all - not the other way around.
    Last edited by Maeloda; 07-31-2013 at 06:17 PM.

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