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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Faction changes.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Faction changes.

    Howdy! Some of you may have noticed that after f2p hits, you will be able to do a faction change and it won't change your race, so you can be a Bahmi guardian or Dwarf defiant. With that in mind, are there any examples of defiant races switching to guardian / guardian races switching to defiant in the game already?

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    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by sternumofvecna View Post
    Howdy! Some of you may have noticed that after f2p hits, you will be able to do a faction change and it won't change your race, so you can be a Bahmi guardian or Dwarf defiant. With that in mind, are there any examples of defiant races switching to guardian / guardian races switching to defiant in the game already?
    I believe there are cases of Eth working with Guardians or Defiants.
    Lore wise, the split between Defiant and Guardians was the result of the schism that occurred when Regulos breached the ward through Aedraxis.

    So the possibility of Kelari being guardians and high elves being defiants does indeed exist.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Mordrahan's Avatar
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    The SL lore sets a new perspective. Guardians and defiants work together against Crucia and Regulos and live in the same neutral city. Some quests in the first zone help to mitigate the old reasons for hostility. It seems now defiant will use empyrean tech instead of sourcestone tech because it is better. So the major issue fades to nothing.
    We also learn that Eth and Mathosians have the same ancestors.
    We see Asha and a Vigil messenger in EE, and from their dialogue I think the Vigil may tolerate Defiants now, because they need them. It is a "from two evil things choose the less nocive" thing.
    And on the RP side, there is always a possibility for individual inclination /curiosity.

    I think I will make my bahmi cleric a Guardian, because this will be very interesting to roleplay.

    In the game you happen to see NPC from other faction's races in some quest hubs/camps. I remember a dwarf merchant in a defiant camp.
    Last edited by Mordrahan; 05-17-2013 at 03:46 AM.

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    Ascendant hardy83's Avatar
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    The fire saga was the first time they really put effort into the lore of both sides working together.

    Other then that, it's basically just been gameplay > story when implementing the changes, which, in this case, I'm fine with.

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    Rift Master Luteuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    I believe there are cases of Eth working with Guardians or Defiants.
    Lore wise, the split between Defiant and Guardians was the result of the schism that occurred when Regulos breached the ward through Aedraxis.

    So the possibility of Kelari being guardians and high elves being defiants does indeed exist.
    yup any of the races its possible to go Defiant. Kelari broke the covenant with the Gods to be stewards of Telara and worshipped the Telaran spirits, Humans dabbled in magitech, and the Dwarves worshipped the telaran spirits.
    Rogue - <Ascendance>"
    Luteuel@Greybriar, formely Luteuel@Deepwood

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    Rift Master Luteuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordrahan View Post
    The SL lore sets a new perspective. Guardians and defiants work together against Crucia and Regulos and live in the same neutral city. Some quests in the first zone help to mitigate the old reasons for hostility. It seems now defiant will use empyrean tech instead of sourcestone tech because it is better. So the major issue fades to nothing.
    We also learn that Eth and Mathosians have the same ancestors.
    We see Asha and a Vigil messenger in EE, and from their dialogue I think the Vigil may tolerate Defiants now, because they need them. It is a "from two evil things choose the less nocive" thing.
    And on the RP side, there is always a possibility for individual inclination /curiosity.

    I think I will make my bahmi cleric a Guardian, because this will be very interesting to roleplay.

    In the game you happen to see NPC from other faction's races in some quest hubs/camps. I remember a dwarf merchant in a defiant camp.
    I would only challenge a couple of items in this. I don't think the Vigil will ever tolerate the Defiants but only put down their difference for one purpose only and that was to vanquish Regulos, but beyond Regulos they reject everything about them. Though we shall see when we find out who the Vigil's #1 adversary is; whether they tolerate the defiants or not, though with current lore and how everyone is joined together I can't see it going any other way. (unless the split the factions again).


    So I don't remember the SL lore about the humans but from the pre-SL lore, All humans originated in the Elven forests, Flourished, some moved north (eventually the Mathosians), some moved south (Eth Tribes), and some moved to distant lands (Brevane and Dusken and Shi-ming and others that are unknown at this time).
    Rogue - <Ascendance>"
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luteuel View Post
    I would only challenge a couple of items in this. I don't think the Vigil will ever tolerate the Defiants but only put down their difference for one purpose only and that was to vanquish Regulos, but beyond Regulos they reject everything about them. Though we shall see when we find out who the Vigil's #1 adversary is; whether they tolerate the defiants or not, though with current lore and how everyone is joined together I can't see it going any other way. (unless the split the factions again).

    So I don't remember the SL lore about the humans but from the pre-SL lore, All humans originated in the Elven forests, Flourished, some moved north (eventually the Mathosians), some moved south (Eth Tribes), and some moved to distant lands (Brevane and Dusken and Shi-ming and others that are unknown at this time).
    The SL lore is basically in reverse, in terms of humans..

    Humans come from Brevane and Dusken (Brevanic, Ashoran, Pelladane - Humans are possibly called the 'Lycini' overall, in Rift lore)
    Elves come from Mathosian continent
    Dwarves come from Mathosian continent (and may have fought with Elves in times long long past)
    Vigil gods may have had their own territories, 2 on Mathosia, 1 for the seas, 2-3 for the other continents, whatever.

    'Brevanic' civilization (possibly had overarching power over both continents?) built the Infinity Gate, dragons quickly appeared and roflstomped everything.
    Akylios went to the ocean, changed it substantially
    Regulos corrupted most of the land of Pelladane, turning it into Dusken
    Greenscale landed around the Dendrome, and spread Life substantially, blocked off only by human tech and maybe Architect hives
    Laethys is unknown, but possibly also ordered the Architects and then did something in southern Mathosia?
    Maelforge is unknown but its possible he just razed the landscape
    Crucia corrupted the Eternal City of Ashora from within, helped it with tech while they lost control to her, she got her army while they died

    The struggles on the other two continents led refugees to flee to Mathosia (not known as Mathosia then), possibly guided by or accompanied by the Vigil gods (speculation)
    They were not welcomed. Each race tried to do its own thing during the Blood Storm War, and the events of it led to elves breaking away from their own people.
    There's also a chapter of this that is missing details, of how Crucia may have came to the continent and a segment of her Legion (Shalastari), led by Bahmi (name, not race) broke off from her control and joined resistance on Mathosia continent. They later, since they were so few in number likely by the end of the war, mated with humans (possibly missing lore details here) which resulted in the Bahmi.

    The Dragons came to mostly control the other continents, aside from their pitched in-fighting at some point, with only a minority of human survivors.
    Eventually they gazed towards the Mathosian continent.
    The fighting became even more pitched.
    Dwarves, Humans (Vigil worshiping and Magitech inventing and magic using, etc), Elves, Shalastari, Vigil, all worked together to stop the Dragons, and it barely worked. Bands of heroes (most of the souls we now attune to, through the Soulstream) trapped the dragons through various means, and weakened them/led them to slumber.
    The Elves fully broke off a good number, who left/decided to stay on Ember Isle, and became mutated by its proximity to the Nexus of the Planes.
    The Shalastari descended into the Bahmi race, but mistrust led to gradual racist divides.
    The Dwarves became more welcoming of others, at least the pure Elves and Mathosians, in their common Vigil worship. Many stayed out of their delves to live on land.
    The pure Elves retreated most of their territory over time (they held most of the land), but fiercely protected Silverwood until its recent occupation by the Guardian faction.
    The humans had an ideological split.
    Some saw tech as their ruin and the Vigil as their saviors, and were the primary dragonslayers. They left to the north and became the Mathosians, with an unbroken royal line.
    Some saw tech as their savior and the Vigil as their ruin (or at least as just other entities, unworthy of worship), and were primary forgers of the Ward and there would have been defeat if there was no magitech. The left to the south and became the Eth, with a millenial rule.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ok, TLDR right?

    Main points:

    -Humans were first written to only be known to originate in the wilds, as more primitive people than the Elves or Dwarves. There may have been hints of otherwise, but it wasn't overt.

    -Storm Legion lore expanded this substantially, and explained the humans as primitive only because they were refugees, and descendents of refugees, but also carried some knowledge of empire, Vigil worship, and technology that their later descendents then come to tap into (becoming the Mathosian and Eth empires)

    -The Vigil used to tolerate technology based on the Planes. However, by this point, it is a very sore spot for them because of how much harm it has brought (Infinity Gate --> Ashora --> Eth --> Shade of Mathosia --> Fall of Port Scion, etc). They prefer to *control* at this point, rather than *regulate* like they seemed to do with the Brevanic people.

    -So while its unknown how exactly they'll treat this partial-alliance between Guardian and Defiant, the factions themselves have openings for 'traitors' to come to worship the Vigil, or embrace magitech, because Storm Legion expansion explains them both as sides of the same coin.
    The conflict itself is born of ideological differences at this point. Do the Vigil deserve unquestioned leadership now? Does magitech contain the most potential for us? (Empyrian Tech was more advanced, but was also more controllable and as far as we know, NEVER created such marvels like Ascended)

  8. #8
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    I would only challenge a couple of items in this. I don't think the Vigil will ever tolerate the Defiants but only put down their difference for one purpose only and that was to vanquish Regulos, but beyond Regulos they reject everything about them.
    I can therefore only agree with this partially.

    While the Vigil may require the end of the Defiants, if the Messengers are right, they hold no pleasure in it. (save for a plot twist where they're evil or something, I dunno)

    And they only block off the 3 races because, in oldish terms, they're 'unclean'. If they Ascend an Eth, chances are far more likely that they'll spit on the Vigil and make magitech. If they Ascend a Kelari, chances are far more likely that they'll spit on the Vigil, and (in Vigil's view imo) just join the enemy. If they Ascend a Bahmi, chances are far more likely that... well, we actually don't know this one because Bahmi don't have much story :P

    But I hope you get my point. To the Vigil, even if they don't want to judge entire races, those races' societies have made clear by this point that the vast majority of them won't help the Vigil in whatever plans they have for the world. Can they go one by one and Ascend individuals? Totally, and they probably do, and you can roleplay that. But otherwise, 90%+ of Eth/Bahmi/Kelari wouldn't go along with anything the Vigil want, so why bother? You'd just be taking a terrible chance, and I actually don't think the Vigil can outright see the future, only paths of it.

    Of course this exposes the Guardians'/Vigil's weakness. Alsbeth was Mathosian and she backstabbed everyone once power was offered. Kain was Mathosian and he backstabbed everyone once tempted by some of Regulos' power. Hylas was Elven and he backstabbed everyone once he felt his people were threatened. Molinar was Dwarven and that didn't stop him from sealing Hammerknell's doom.
    One plus of the Defiants is that they don't judge on race nearly as much. When they did so in Terminus, that was a dire future where 3 races were literally running to slit their throats - otherwise, hey Brother Damon! Cool, come on in! Freemarchians? Yeah, let's go! Scarwood Dwarves? Cool! Anyone to join our cause. Guardians require a near-total conversion.

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    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    For what it is worth, the graduation chronicles will support the cross-faction races now, though all 3 will share new dialog per side. Or to be more clear - the intro and presentation speech that are tailored to each race - previously 3 paths - now have a 4th path, that of the cross-faction convert.

    *edit* I should also note that the new lines do not have VO as of 2.3. VO requires a decent amount of lead time to set up in coordinating the voice actors time.
    Last edited by Salvatrix; 05-18-2013 at 07:21 AM.

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    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    There can always be those who grew up in say "the wilds." Away from the normal culture. Or each society has its own sections of non traditional followers. Wouldn't need a whole new Lore to figure that out, happens in real life since forever.

    Anyway, I notice that during the dev interview they never brought up what I cared about. They never really showed any way for my current character to turn directly into another race rather so my current character can change faction making me not really have the customization I was seeking.

    Will there be a race/ gender change?
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 05-17-2013 at 10:30 PM.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    For what it is worth, the graduation chronicles will support the cross-faction races now, though all 3 will share new dialog per side. Or to be more clear - the intro and presentation speech that are tailored to each race - previously 3 paths - now have a 4th path, that of the cross-faction convert.
    That's pretty nice . I'd like to see it.

    And damn 2.3 sounds huge, even with these little touches included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    There can always be those who grew up in say "the wilds." Away from the normal culture. Or each society has its own sections of non traditional followers. Wouldn't need a whole new Lore to figure that out, happens in real life since forever.
    It doesn't even need to be that. If you consider your leveling zone 'canon' for your RP, then... your Dwarf really did do the Mathosia stuff and got Ascended by the Vigil. The difference now is, you stopped your story part way through, and rejected them.
    Same as an Eth after Terminus. You came to save the future! But now this is a Post River of Souls and now Post Regulos world. What do you do? Well the Vigil doesn't seem so bad... in fact, Tempest Bay is pretty beautiful with their continued tribute to the Vigil... ;)
    Last edited by Maeloda; 05-18-2013 at 02:26 AM.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    "Will there be a race/ gender change?"

    I am curious about this as well, will a Kelari male be able to change completely into a female High Elf, a female Bahmi into a male Dwarf, etc...

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Delmlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythue View Post
    "Will there be a race/ gender change?"

    I am curious about this as well, will a Kelari male be able to change completely into a female High Elf, a female Bahmi into a male Dwarf, etc...
    Yes there will but they will probably be sold separately. Price for the faction change, then the price for the sex change.
    Rehashed, reskinned content =/= Exciting new content
    Retired from Rift thanks to Square E getting their stuff together

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    For what it is worth, the graduation chronicles will support the cross-faction races now, though all 3 will share new dialog per side. Or to be more clear - the intro and presentation speech that are tailored to each race - previously 3 paths - now have a 4th path, that of the cross-faction convert.

    *edit* I should also note that the new lines do not have VO as of 2.3. VO requires a decent amount of lead time to set up in coordinating the voice actors time.
    This is an awesome touch, and more than I expected! Thanks for responding

  15. #15
    Shadowlander Jyle's Avatar
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    I'm very sorry if this was covered and I missed it, but how will this affect questlines in the old world?
    If a guardian switches to defiant, I assume the story lines will be available in Freemarch and Stonefield ect.
    But if he switches BACK, will all the guardian quest lines reset?

    It would be great to read all the quests from the defiant's point of view without having to reroll a new class (which is not that bad when I think about it).

    Just curious!

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