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Thread: Lore: Here's what I dont get

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    Sword of Telara Ciik's Avatar
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    Default Lore: Here's what I dont get

    Defiants hate the gods for their perception of being abandoned while Planar forces are attacking Telara. The Guardians like the gods and raise temples in hope for their praise will win them favor while battling another plane of reality that is attacking Telara.

    Both Defiants and Guardians hate it when another plane of reality, or Planar Forces, are attacking Telara and trying to invade it.

    Yet, the Defiants hate the Guardians enough, because they are thought of as wussies, to kill Guardians while Planar Forces are invading Telara.

    Belief systems aside, shouldn't Defiants or Guardians aid each other during an invasion rather than using it as an opportunity to kill the opposing faction, since it's the lesser of the 2 evils?

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    Shield of Telara Meharial's Avatar
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    Yup, canon wise that exact thing happened to Asha and the guardians when a rift opened up nearby. And in game, the rift forces don't exactly care which faction you are from so both sides end up fighting it. But if you could get rid of the other side while you are at it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxcalibur View Post
    Verily, Maelforge did say, "Suffer all the bros to come at me!"

    Yeah, that piece is canon.

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    Sword of Telara Ciik's Avatar
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    I understand that, that the Invasion doesn't care what faction you are. And I can understand how the 2 factions can be at odds with each other, but to be at odds with each other to the extreme of trying to exterminate the other over the urgency of defeating an invasion seems a bit off.

    Why the Guardians feel as though they have to 'hunt' the Defiants and establish them as a priority enemy over the Planar Invasion still confuses me.

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    Shield of Telara MaddBomber83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciik View Post
    I understand that, that the Invasion doesn't care what faction you are. And I can understand how the 2 factions can be at odds with each other, but to be at odds with each other to the extreme of trying to exterminate the other over the urgency of defeating an invasion seems a bit off.

    Why the Guardians feel as though they have to 'hunt' the Defiants and establish them as a priority enemy over the Planar Invasion still confuses me.
    How about this...

    The Guardian view the Defiant as the greater threat because their technology allowed the ward to break in the first place. Stopping invasions is second to stopping those who tore the ward apart as they will do it again. The defiant are like a traitor still at large, much more dangerous than the enemy.

    The Defiant 'Know' that the Guardian will fall (the Defiant Ascended are from the future, the last bit of time before this world is consumed). The Defiant also view the Guardian's blind faith in the gods as a weakness. A weakness that in the future prompt a corrupted group of Guardians to usher in the end of the world. Thus the Guardians are the ones that will ensure the destruction of this plane and must be purged if we are ever to stop the invasions.

    Taking both points of views together, and have them killing your side; and now you are unlikely to cooperate in anything.

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    Plane Walker Ironfungus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaddBomber83 View Post
    How about this...

    The Guardian view the Defiant as the greater threat because their technology allowed the ward to break in the first place. Stopping invasions is second to stopping those who tore the ward apart as they will do it again. The defiant are like a traitor still at large, much more dangerous than the enemy.

    The Defiant 'Know' that the Guardian will fall (the Defiant Ascended are from the future, the last bit of time before this world is consumed). The Defiant also view the Guardian's blind faith in the gods as a weakness. A weakness that in the future prompt a corrupted group of Guardians to usher in the end of the world. Thus the Guardians are the ones that will ensure the destruction of this plane and must be purged if we are ever to stop the invasions.

    Taking both points of views together, and have them killing your side; and now you are unlikely to cooperate in anything.
    A good summary. I have to go with the Guardians on this one, and the Defiant can't possibly be safe from corruption; just look at the Kelari.

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    Telaran Darkfae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironfungus View Post
    A good summary. I have to go with the Guardians on this one, and the Defiant can't possibly be safe from corruption; just look at the Kelari.
    To play the devil's advocate - no one on either side is safe from corruption. The Guardian's had one of their own become corrupted, which you learn about in the Defiant starting zone; Shayla betrayed the Guardians to the forces of the dragons, ended up dead, and you're taming her soul to gain more power.

    Another example of corruption on the Guardian's side in the current setting: look at the Aelfwar, who are still High Elves, yet serving a dragon god. No one is immune to corruption.

    Also, there is no good or evil side in this game - the Guardians are NOT good and the Defiant are NOT evil. What we have is a propaganda war that's gone to the extremes possible due to a number of situations on both sides, but the core of the matter is that it's faith in gods vs. faith in self/what one creates themselves. Neither stems from corruption. Neither is wrong in it's philosophy. Neither is safe from corruption.

    To provide an example that is easier to relate to, from the real world: both the faithful communities and the powerful of the secular communities are susceptible to corruption; I'd bet that not a single large group on either side of that has had absolutely 0 corruption - and some of them do have as much faith in their Gods as the Guardians seem to, albeit it's truly more of a blind faith than Guardians since there's no avatars of anyone's God walking about the Earth at the moment.

    Joining a faction on the basis that they can't be corrupted is naive, as both sides of the lore show that it happens on both sides. Mortals, Immortals, Gods - none of them are infallible of corruption.

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    Prophet of Telara Jorun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaddBomber83 View Post
    How about this...

    The Guardian view the Defiant as the greater threat because their technology allowed the ward to break in the first place. Stopping invasions is second to stopping those who tore the ward apart as they will do it again. ......
    And you have the son of King Jostir who looked to the greed and became corrupted. His greed tore apart the ward.

    Basically, the Telara situation is that all factions involved have both good intentions and bad intentions as well as naive intentions. There is jealousy and madness, greed and heroism, envy and virtue, faith and disbelief, love and hate, life and death, old school and new approaches. All rolled into one world and it's universe.

    Oh, my, how I so love a good soap opera!


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    Shadowlander BiQNiQ's Avatar
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    perhaps Regulous wants to restore order. Both the Vigil and the defiant machinery puls the souls from their rightfull place inorder to protect the Sourcestone and fight Regulous, for some hidden devious purpose? Hell no have no idead at all

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    Plane Touched Arnem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiQNiQ View Post
    perhaps Regulous wants to restore order. Both the Vigil and the defiant machinery puls the souls from their rightfull place inorder to protect the Sourcestone and fight Regulous, for some hidden devious purpose? Hell no have no idead at all
    No, he's just an avatar of death that wants to snuff out all life and consume the world. He's the end without hope of a new beginning.

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    Rift Chaser Teshra's Avatar
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    I'm with you Ciik. I've been wondering the exact same thing about the lore. I wrote this in another thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Teshra View Post
    I admit I haven’t dug into the lore deeply but the gist of what I read is both factions blame each other for causing rifts. Plus the universal god vs science dilemna. Put your differences aside, work together to defeat a threat to end life as you know it. Get back to petty squabbles after the threat to your world has passed. I find it comical playing Guardian that in my territory I have a rift, an invasion just came thru, footholds have already set up shop and here come some defiants, native inhabitants of my homeworld, looking to loot/pillage. With this type of cooperation, Telara is doomed in less than a week, forget 10 years. Perhaps sending Defiants back in time sped up the rate at which Regulos conquered. It seems each side would prefer to destroy the other and Regulos is just a distraction to achieving that goal. Its like the hellmouth opened up in Sunnydale but the US goes to war with Canada because we think they caused it.

    I dunno but as an indigenous species, I should be more concerned about somebody wanting to destroy ALL life as opposed to someone who philosophically disagrees w/ me.
    Last edited by Teshra; 01-23-2011 at 01:47 PM.

  11. #11
    Telaran Vasilije's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciik View Post
    Belief systems aside, shouldn't Defiants or Guardians aid each other during an invasion rather than using it as an opportunity to kill the opposing faction, since it's the lesser of the 2 evils?
    Shouldn't our world unite, erase nations, pool resource, and better our species and existence as a whole? Could probably do some amazing things if we did that.

    Too bad conflict is way cooler than peace, and humans more susceptible to hate than love.

    Extrapolate to Telara and the species therein.
    Last edited by Vasilije; 01-23-2011 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Addition

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    Telaran Darkfae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorun View Post
    Basically, the Telara situation is that all factions involved have both good intentions and bad intentions as well as naive intentions. There is jealousy and madness, greed and heroism, envy and virtue, faith and disbelief, love and hate, life and death, old school and new approaches. All rolled into one world and it's universe.
    Well played, Jorun, well played. Despite it being standard soap opera fair, it's an awesome description of the actuality of Telara's setting. =)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnem View Post
    No, he's just an avatar of death that wants to snuff out all life and consume the world. He's the end without hope of a new beginning.
    what's there more ordered than the final entropic death of the universe?

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    Prophet of Telara Jorun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnem View Post
    No, he's just an avatar of death that wants to snuff out all life and consume the world. He's the end without hope of a new beginning.
    Are you absolutely sure? Isn't death the ending of one existence and the beginning of another? A plant dies. Its original state when it lived now no longer exists. But is it permanent? The plant changes into various organisms that is used to feed other organisms. Out of that, new life begins.

    A planet explodes and ceases to exist as it was known before. Yes, one can say, planet x died. The state it was in changed and is no longer. Now it's in a zillion pieces and gases going in all sorts of directions. Some of those pieces and gases might meet up with others and eventually a different organism is born and new life begins.

    You might say, Regulus is death. He destroys worlds in order to eat the substance he craves - sourcestone. Yes, if he eats Telara, Telara as it is known then dies. The pieces not eating by death or ejected from death may roam in a space for zillions of years - all those gases, microbes until it collides with something else that sticks and forms something new. The gods smile and say - it's time for life to begin again in a different form.

    There cannot be death without life. There cannot be life without death. Life feeds death. Death feeds life.

    JMO


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    Rift Disciple Narshima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciik View Post
    Defiants hate the gods for their perception of being abandoned while Planar forces are attacking Telara. The Guardians like the gods and raise temples in hope for their praise will win them favor while battling another plane of reality that is attacking Telara.

    Both Defiants and Guardians hate it when another plane of reality, or Planar Forces, are attacking Telara and trying to invade it.

    Yet, the Defiants hate the Guardians enough, because they are thought of as wussies, to kill Guardians while Planar Forces are invading Telara.

    Belief systems aside, shouldn't Defiants or Guardians aid each other during an invasion rather than using it as an opportunity to kill the opposing faction, since it's the lesser of the 2 evils?
    I fully agree with this, often times factions that don't get along band together to fight a more powerful invading force. The idea that both of the factions can't put their fighting aside to accomplish their main objective is silly at best.

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