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Thread: My hope for a new expansion

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Default My hope for a new expansion

    I know this will seem odd and perhaps annoy some but what else is new ;).When I saw the Infinity gate and the other new pieces of tech this is what I came up with as "my" Telara. In the Mathosian history on the main web site it says humans are the only race to be created by all the gods. In other stories the Eth are hinted to be the nomads to the south that have no gods. I then looked at the human (Eth) talent for technology. I then came up with this. What if some or all of the various races are no more native to Telara than the Vigil? What if the Vigil themselves are as I said elsewhere essentially very powerful aliens? Then could the infinity gate not be a product of the ancient past? Maybe this is the device that the Vigil used to bring life (or at least some of it) to the world they created from other worlds. This could have happened so far in the past that there is no real memory of it. Even more oitside the box what if humans are aliens but elves and dwarves are not. What if the Eth Empire was but a shadow of a truly ancient legacy and the Infinity gate is a left over from this Telaran "Atlantis"? The possibilities have me all a tingle.

    What I basically hope is that Trion keeps going outside the box when it comes to lore. The melding of science and magic was a step in a direction that could lead to other fantasy conventions being changed leaning more towards a Moorcockian multiverse than Tolkien universe
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Talila's Avatar
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    A friend of mine and I have been thinking of the alien theory for probably about six months now The further we go along the way, the less unrealistic it seems to become that they might in fact be aliens.
    Still though, I won't say anything for sure until we see more proof on that ^^
    I like going outside of the box, though for future lore I hope for more lore that can be used in Roleplay as well rather than it functioning as a mask for game-mechanics. Masking game mechanics with lore is good to some extend, but would like to see something go beyond that too.
    Last edited by Talila; 06-06-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've been considering WHAT humans were before their split. We know they used technology, how much? We know it was enough to screw up the dragons.

    Other than that, it would just be interesting to find out that the legacy of humanity was equal parts 'Guardian' and 'Defiant'.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talila View Post
    A friend of mine and I have been thinking of the alien theory for probably about six months now The further we go along the way, the less unrealistic it seems to become that they might in fact be aliens.
    Still though, I won't say anything for sure until we see more proof on that ^^
    I like going outside of the box, though for future lore I hope for more lore that can be used in Roleplay as well rather than it functioning as a mask for game-mechanics. Masking game mechanics with lore is good to some extend, but would like to see something go beyond that too.
    But lore for game mechanics can be good RP. Since it seems there will be a city in the new zone the factions have to defend together, there would certainly be some interesting arguments. I can see it now...."Ethain Heretic!! First you use forbidden technology and now you dare blaspheme by claiming we are not the creations of the Vigil!!!"
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    What if some or all of the various races are no more native to Telara than the Vigil? What if the Vigil themselves are as I said elsewhere essentially very powerful aliens? Then could the infinity gate not be a product of the ancient past? Maybe this is the device that the Vigil used to bring life (or at least some of it) to the world they created from other worlds.
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    RIFT Community Ambassador Talila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    But lore for game mechanics can be good RP. Since it seems there will be a city in the new zone the factions have to defend together, there would certainly be some interesting arguments. I can see it now...."Ethain Heretic!! First you use forbidden technology and now you dare blaspheme by claiming we are not the creations of the Vigil!!!"
    Yes, I didn't claim that they were pure evil, I'm simply just saying there's a fair few of them and I'd like to see them go deeper than that. Answer some of our why questions so we can question the answers, fill in gaps, etc etc - so beyond simply focusing on "this feature is here, now how do we explain it".
    Not that they aren't going deeper at all either, I'd just like to see more of it. Moooore..

    *turns into a lorehound zombie* "Lore.."
    Last edited by Talila; 06-06-2012 at 02:25 PM.
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    Plane Walker
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    Im pretty sure I read somewhere that the High Elves actually remember the evolution of the humans. They were actually caught of guard by the humans cause they originally thought them little more than other forest animals. As they developed the HEs taught the humans magic. Some migrated south and others north. The ones to the south broke off ties but the ones who went north remained in contact with the elves.

    It my be the History of the High Elves book in game. Ill see if I can find it. Either way it would suggest whoever built those anceint ruins were likely not Eth and quite possibly not human.

    After all who is to say the Eth were the first to come up with Magitech. Perhaps there is a history to what made the Vigil so anti magitech.
    Last edited by Lutinz; 06-06-2012 at 11:38 PM.

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    I have read the same thing Lutinz but I don't remember if it was in one of the in game books or on one of Trions lore pages.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
    Im pretty sure I read somewhere that the High Elves actually remember the evolution of the humans. They were actually caught of guard by the humans cause they originally thought them little more than other forest animals. As they developed the HEs taught the humans magic. Some migrated south and others north. The ones to the south broke off ties but the ones who went north remained in contact with the elves.

    It my be the History of the High Elves book in game. Ill see if I can find it. Either way it would suggest whoever built those anceint ruins were likely not Eth and quite possibly not human.

    After all who is to say the Eth were the first to come up with Magitech. Perhaps there is a history to what made the Vigil so anti magitech.
    Actually this could fit into the theory:

    1 - Original human race have their own society and tech, maybe relation to the Vigil, who knows?

    2 - Disaster or something bad happens (as it does in Rift..)

    3 - Many years later, the descendants cross the water, but are only above tribal level in tech

    4 - Elves take them in, and teach them magic

    5 - After BSW, the humans split into Eth and Mathosian


    This is, of course, assuming that the race over there was human. Which they likely are not, when I think of it. (I DO wonder how the Vigil gods fit into this then - I sure hope they're not ignored here, or hugely retconned...)

    I just think the idea of elves teaching humanity actual magic, can still make sense, even if humanity originated on the other continents.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glamour View Post
    I have read the same thing Lutinz but I don't remember if it was in one of the in game books or on one of Trions lore pages.
    Well I was under the belief that the humans WERE created by the Vigil, likely not Bahrult and Tavril though!

    But they were not exactly the 'chosen ones' and were just part of Telara's creation. They didn't know magic, and they existed primitively compared to the Elves (Tavril's original chosen) and the Dwarves (Bahrult's original chosen).

    As the threat to Telara arrived, humanity stepped up (as it tends to happen in fantasy and sci-fi, haha). They learned magic, organized forms of resistance and battle, took up magitech (from where? hmm? Seems like quite an advanced thing to just pick up, even over hundreds of years), and 'thanks' to Crucia's rebellion, but also specific heroes, the united force of Telara was able to tackle the Bloodstorm. The Kelari faction leaving the High Elves was the start of the fracturing of their alliance though, and then the humans split, etc etc.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    Are you Tom Cruise?
    No but we have already have Aliens. What are the the Blood Storm? They are from other planes. They are not native to the plane Telara is on thus = Alien. Since the various members of the Vigil created Telara, they needed to come from somewhere else. Thus = Alien. Why using such a term must equal little grey men is beyond me.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
    Im pretty sure I read somewhere that the High Elves actually remember the evolution of the humans. They were actually caught of guard by the humans cause they originally thought them little more than other forest animals. As they developed the HEs taught the humans magic. Some migrated south and others north. The ones to the south broke off ties but the ones who went north remained in contact with the elves.

    It my be the History of the High Elves book in game. Ill see if I can find it. Either way it would suggest whoever built those anceint ruins were likely not Eth and quite possibly not human.

    After all who is to say the Eth were the first to come up with Magitech. Perhaps there is a history to what made the Vigil so anti magitech.
    No what the elves found were humans living in primitive hunter gather societies. This is actually why I referred to Atlantis. Basically the idea that a cataclysm of some sort strikes that essentially threw humanity to the sea, and those that washed up on the original (in game) continent were essentially thrown back into the stone age. It is actually on the Mathosian home page main web site.

    The idea I had was this. The Mathosian and the Eth are flip sides of the same people. Even if subconsciously, racial memory what ever the Mathosians remember the tech throwing them back into the stone age. The eth conversely remember the glory of the same technology. Hence the Mathosians support the Vigil ban and the Eth do not.

    Again this is all personal speculation. For the most part I just want to see Trion NOT keep following the stereo typical high fantasy line and touch more upon the possibilities the multi-verse option they have hinted at. Anyone who has read more than just the Elric Books of Michael Moorcock has an idea of just how interesting this can be.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    Actually this could fit into the theory:

    1 - Original human race have their own society and tech, maybe relation to the Vigil, who knows?

    2 - Disaster or something bad happens (as it does in Rift..)

    3 - Many years later, the descendants cross the water, but are only above tribal level in tech

    4 - Elves take them in, and teach them magic

    5 - After BSW, the humans split into Eth and Mathosian


    This is, of course, assuming that the race over there was human. Which they likely are not, when I think of it. (I DO wonder how the Vigil gods fit into this then - I sure hope they're not ignored here, or hugely retconned...)

    I just think the idea of elves teaching humanity actual magic, can still make sense, even if humanity originated on the other continents.
    this is pretty much it. It could very easily be that for whatever reason the Humans first developed Tech vs Magic. So the Elves not only essentially bring them back from the stone age to the iron age but also teach them magic. But they just have a "nack" and eventually some people move south and eventually become the Eth who then start rediscovering the technological sides of their natures.

    The only difference is that it seems that the split between Eth and Mathosian started prior to the first BSW. I keep looking for somewhere that really says "we the Vigil together created humanity." You can find where the dwarves were created, elves too. However when it is said "all the vigil joined in the creation of man" it almost seems to be based on the assumption..."well no individual god has claimed them so it must be all of them, right?" That is why I am wondering if the new lands will bring some new light to this issue.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    No what the elves found were humans living in primitive hunter gather societies. This is actually why I referred to Atlantis. Basically the idea that a cataclysm of some sort strikes that essentially threw humanity to the sea, and those that washed up on the original (in game) continent were essentially thrown back into the stone age. It is actually on the Mathosian home page main web site.

    The idea I had was this. The Mathosian and the Eth are flip sides of the same people. Even if subconsciously, racial memory what ever the Mathosians remember the tech throwing them back into the stone age. The eth conversely remember the glory of the same technology. Hence the Mathosians support the Vigil ban and the Eth do not.

    Again this is all personal speculation. For the most part I just want to see Trion NOT keep following the stereo typical high fantasy line and touch more upon the possibilities the multi-verse option they have hinted at. Anyone who has read more than just the Elric Books of Michael Moorcock has an idea of just how interesting this can be.
    Reminds me a bit of Aion. Two peoples borne of one.

    If this is somehow true, then the new 'race', if they are truly called the 'Etrians', then Eth + Mathosians = Etrians :O
    Whohhhhhh.

    So that would make the western continent, the home of Tavril/Elves and Bahrult/Dwarves, but the eastern continents the home of the humans/Thedeor/Thontic/Mariel-Taun.

    "Thontic is the deity who guides travelers to safe harbor, who hides teeming life and fantastic revelations beneath the briny tide. While the Abyssal are misers of knowledge, hoarding secrets until their minds burst, Thonticís priests are patrons of wisdom, answering lifeís great questions and revealing their discoveries for the benefit of all."
    Thontic may as well have been the god that lead the survivors/refugees to our known Telara.

    And the Vigil may ban the use of magitech (with the Blood Storm War as the exception, as they really really needed help at that time), because of a more ancient disaster. The Eth disaster only reinforces the dangerous potential of mortals playing with sourcestone/tech/whatever.

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    From the history of the Mathosian, it says this:


    "Humans first appeared in the great High Elven forests of Tavra sometime after the Age of Legend. Unlike many of the other races on Telara, humans were created by a collaboration of all the gods, which may explain their swift rise to dominance throughout the world. At first, Humanity was nothing more than wild beasts, seemingly foraging through the forests in very loose clans with no language or apparent intelligence. The High Elves were aware of them and treated them kindly like all other creatures in their care. But humans were surprisingly adaptable and observant; so they flourished, eventually learning languages, magic, and the tenets of civilization.

    For the extremely long lived High Elves, it appeared that the humans became civilized almost overnight. It was difficult for them to accept that humans were more than they first appeared but over time they grew a close relationship with the burgeoning tribes. As Humanity continued to grow in size and sophistication, many began leaving the forests to explore and settle in faraway lands. Yet one farseeing tribe elected to stay behind for many more generations, learning philosophy, music, and the tenets of law from their enlightened neighbors. They eventually ventured north out of the forests to found one of the greatest empires of any race on Telara – the Mathosians."


    a collaboration of the Gods, maybe the first? before they joined together. What feels left open is how they came to be. What they were created from. Their forms are of sourcestone? Their souls are from where? This feels left open for the High Elves and Dwarves as well.

    And in this,

    "Humans first appeared in the great High Elven forests of Tavra"

    is Tavra simply a mis-spelling of Tarvil, or is it what the Elven forests were once called. Was Telara first just a huge forest? maybe with oceans?
    Last edited by Mythue; 06-08-2012 at 05:34 AM.

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