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Thread: Kain makes it to the future!?

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    Ascendant tro44's Avatar
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    Default Kain makes it to the future!?

    in Defiant's starter area, I notice that he isnt the Avatar of Regulos any longer.

    what could be the reason behind that?

    who took that place?
    Last edited by tro44; 03-23-2012 at 12:41 PM.

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  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    From how I understand the rules of time travel in this setting:
    The Defiant starting area is effectively a different timeline than the current one - where the current one is created by defiants from the future arriving.
    In that timeline, Kain probably never was the avatar.
    It's been too long since I played the Defiant starting area so I'm not sure, but I think the avatar seen there was the resurrected and bound Zareph Mathos - an event that in-game you stop in the chronicle version of River of Souls.

    After travelling back in time, the Defiant have interfered with the cult of the Endless enough that they had to change their plans and made Kain the avatar.
    Last edited by Icosahedron; 03-23-2012 at 02:17 PM.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple GothWulfe's Avatar
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    Presumably Kain never was made the avatar because without the Defiant ascended there, the Guardian ascended simply weren't able to interfere with Alsbeth enough that Regulos abandoned her, so she was still his little puppet and Kain never went nuts.

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    Shield of Telara Meharial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GothWulfe View Post
    Presumably Kain never was made the avatar because without the Defiant ascended there, the Guardian ascended simply weren't able to interfere with Alsbeth enough that Regulos abandoned her, so she was still his little puppet and Kain never went nuts.
    He did go nuts still. He's in the Defiant starting zone under the name of Frederick the Betrayer. But you are correct about Alsbeth. As the Ascended were unable to stop her in Stillmore nor kill her in the River of Souls, she's still the Avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxcalibur View Post
    Verily, Maelforge did say, "Suffer all the bros to come at me!"

    Yeah, that piece is canon.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tro44 View Post
    in Defiant's starter area, I notice that he isnt the Avatar of Regulos any longer.

    what could be the reason behind that?

    who took that place?
    Shyla is the Avatar of regulos in the Defiant Future. You actually have to drain/purge her soul as the quest right before you go and use the device to gain you ascended powers and her name plate says "Shyla the Avatar of Regulos". Why the defiant coming back changes this I don't know. Personally I think Frederick the betrayer is a completely different person, why change your name? But Shyla is definitely the Avatar.
    Last edited by Galibier; 03-24-2012 at 10:13 PM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Shyla is the Avatar of regulos in the Defiant Future. You actually have to drain/purge her soul as the quest right before you go and use the device to gain you ascended powers and her name plate says "Shyla the Avatar of Regulos". Why the defiant coming back changes this I don't know. Personally I think Frederick the betrayer is a completely different person, why change your name? But Shyla is definitely the Avatar.
    Shyla is nothing more than a corrupted Guardian. Frederick Kain the Betrayer only became the Avatar after Alsbeth was defeated in the Eye of Regulos, pushed back during the 1.1 world event, and then finally put down in the Soulstream itself. In Terminus, none of that stuff happened. Kain fell regardless, that much is true, but Alsbeth was never defeated. She shattered the Ward utterly in the Eye, followed it up with an invasion that completely crushed the opposition, and spent the next 20 years watching Regulos devour Telara.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Shyla in the tutorial is the Herald of Regulos, not the avatar. Frederick is indeed a betrayer in the tutorial aswell. Alsbeth was never really meant to be an avatar of Regulos though, in scarwood reach the ascended guardians stop a construction of an avatar for Regulos. She wanted to be his Queen I think.

    I think kain was more on track to become is Avatar in the current timeline due to the fact he had held the remnants of the fallen king for so long, no idea if he got that far in that other version of things. But Asha fights the old version of his avatar, which would hint at they reconstructed his old form.

    /my two cents

  8. #8
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Thank you for the correction, Herald v. Avatar.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  9. #9
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    Actually, Kain was the Avatar of Regulos. In the Guardian Starting Zone (20 yrs before you were sent to Silverwood) Kain became the Avatar but was than killed by you, and his body was shattered. In the Defiant Starting Zone (20 yrs Later) there was no one to stop Alsbeth's ritual at the Eye of Regulos, so Regulos came to life is his real form. It is true Fredrick is Kain, but remember Defiants started 20yrs later and Guardians 20yrs Earlier. Since no one interfered with Alsbeth, she plucked Kain out of the Soulstream using the machine that Plutonus was guarding in RoS, which is why you see him in Defiant Starting Zone.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    It was Aedraxis Mathos, and not Kain who was the avatar of Regulos in the tutorial for the guardians, Kain was an ascended guardian hero tainted by carrying by shards of Aedraxis way later in the guardian main story. There's no way of knowing just how the defiant tutorial Kain succumbed to Regulos and Alsbeth, but because he's called the betrayer it's safe to imagine that he had willingly (if still influenced) betrayed the vigil to join with Alsbeth in Stillmoor. It's an odd topic though

  11. #11
    Champion Turrant's Avatar
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    Every so often Abestes Kita or whatevver her name is in the planar room in Sanctum will summon a being held prisoner inside the Vault of Heresy and interogates them. One day she summoned a shade into the room and asked it a few questions concerning Regulos. She starts off asking why is it that he can still persist when his master is outside of the war and he replys that Regulos is not truly outside the ward and rambles about his return. He says the Vigil's miracle of Ascension has allowed for his return and then the Priestess banishes the shade back inside the Vault of Heresy for Lying. I wish I could remember everything the shade said, too bad I did not screenshot it but I will next time I see it.

    My guess, he exists still on Telara as the remenants that Kain has collected. The miracle of Ascension has allowed Kain to posses the fragments withought actualy dying and the Sanctum Chronicle makes it seem like he will become the new Avatar of Regulos. Regarless, Kain will play a significant part of the return of Regulos and it will be interesting to see it be fully developed.

  12. #12
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    I love those little random summonings that the Abbess does! For me, the really interesting part is how different each person's prison is within the Vault of Heresy. Some are bound in amber, some bound in salt, along with a myriad of other punishments.

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  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    "My guess, he exists still on Telara as the remenants that Kain has collected"

    if Regulos does still exist on Telara, as the remnants that Kain has collected then I am going to guess the Vigil still exists on Telara in light energy form in the Sanctuary of Re-birth.:)

  14. #14
    Champion Turrant's Avatar
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    That was assumeing the shade was telling the truth that the reason he can still hold a phsical form on Telara is because Regulos is not truly outside of the ward. I can't think of any other relics from the Shade War or any other thing that has not been destroyed completly other than these remenants. The Vault of Secrets inside King's Breach was cleared in order to kill Greenscale during the epic gaurdian life saga. If you know of any more then I would not mind hearing them. I doubt that Regulos exists inside the ward in his full form like the other dragons.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    I got the impression that the ritual in the Eye of Regulos in Stillmoor during the quests there are an attempt by Alsbeth to bring Andrexis back. Infact the load screen for the defiants at that point in the quests says that it is the moment in time the Defiants were sent back to prevent.

    If that ritual succeeded then Andrexis would be reborn and Regulos would have his avatar.

    Its worth noting about Regulos, though he does seem to have a physical presence in Telara, his body appears to be in peices. His heart is sealed in Lord's Hall, One of his claws features as the focus of the Black Garden Warfront and I could easily see other bits of him sealed away around telara (though who took him apart is something we dont know yet. ALL his siblings did jump him.)

    Regulos seems to have more freedom than his siblings. Either this is because he is more powerful or he isnt sealed away in the same way.

    It will be down to Crucia vs Regulos soon... Ill be curious exactly what Crucia is planning since she seems to be the most subtle of the Dragons.

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