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Thread: Is the Vigil

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Is the Vigil

    only able to travel forward and not back?

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara
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    The Vigil can't travel through time at all. At best they can see signs of what *could* be. They are as bound by time as every other entity on Telara.

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Nothing's known about what the Vigil themselves can do concerning time -- no limitations or capabilities are revealed yet. All we know is that their Messengers can see time as a constant "present" (past and future at once), and that they don't like people meddling with it.
    And that either there are a great many Messengers of the Vigil, or the one who travels through time to be in many places at once.
    Last edited by Morvick; 02-23-2012 at 06:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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    Shadowlander Andelor's Avatar
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    I don't think The Vigil is capable of traversing time, but there are most certainly able to see various instances of the future.

    For example, does anybody remember the Nic Cage movie Next?

    In the movie, Nic Cage is able to instantly see every future variations of decisions he makes.

    This is exactly how i see The Vigil. They are capable of knowing every possibility variation of all of our actions.
    "By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth." - George Carlin

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    When you finish RoS you can see Orphiel bump in (as a ghost-like being). If I remember correctly he says something about the Vigil as "beings that exist outside of time and space". Sorry can't remember exact wording..

    Anyway that would indicate to me that they are not bound by time

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarim View Post
    When you finish RoS you can see Orphiel bump in (as a ghost-like being). If I remember correctly he says something about the Vigil as "beings that exist outside of time and space". Sorry can't remember exact wording..

    Anyway that would indicate to me that they are not bound by time

    If that's true that makes the number of Guardians they bring back that end up flipping to the Blood Swarm side even more stupid.

    "Hey guys, lets Ascend that Alsbeth girl."

    "Wait my ability to see into the future says she'll end up betraying Telara, causing the death of prince Zarepth, destroying the peace between the Guardians and Defiant, and cost the people of Telara the only safe city."

    "Meh..."

    "Ok, one Ascended Alsbeth on the way."

  7. #7
    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoMage View Post
    If that's true that makes the number of Guardians they bring back that end up flipping to the Blood Swarm side even more stupid.

    "Hey guys, lets Ascend that Alsbeth girl."

    "Wait my ability to see into the future says she'll end up betraying Telara, causing the death of prince Zarepth, destroying the peace between the Guardians and Defiant, and cost the people of Telara the only safe city."

    "Meh..."

    "Ok, one Ascended Alsbeth on the way."
    In one potential time-line. Maybe in another she made a better decision. Same with Kain.
    Remember that the Vigil can't take away your free choice, but they can try to plan for as many outcomes as possible.

    But what Sarim said is true, I remember Orphiel making that observation (when you use Omen Sight on him for the first time, he goes into detail about it). It would also confirm the few times that it's brought up by the Guardians.
    Last edited by Morvick; 02-24-2012 at 08:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morvick View Post
    In one potential time-line. Maybe in another she made a better decision. Same with Kain.
    Remember that the Vigil can't take away your free choice, but they can try to plan for as many outcomes as possible.

    But what Sarim said is true, I remember Orphiel making that observation (when you use Omen Sight on him for the first time, he goes into detail about it). It would also confirm the few times that it's brought up by the Guardians.
    It's good to know we got the timeline where the Vigil's choices are so bad.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Arynite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoMage View Post
    It's good to know we got the timeline where the Vigil's choices are so bad.
    Well if we got the one with all the good choices, we'd probably have a pretty boring MMO.

    But is it really the Vigil's choices, or the Telarans' that made it so bad?

    The Vigil ascended multiple sketchy characters, not just Alsbeth and Kain. Some of those characters, like Hugo and Alaric, have done good things with their second chances.

    Dimensions on Deepwood: Beware of Angels, Nightshade Arena, Drakenstrom (closed for renovation)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arynite View Post
    But is it really the Vigil's choices, or the Telarans' that made it so bad?
    The arguement was that the Vigil know what the outcome of things are going to be. It's like blaming a bullet for killing the man because it made the "bad" choice to fly into somebodies heart after you pulled a trigger. The fact that you knew 100% ((if the Vigil can see into the future)) that by pulling the trigger what would happen, you are to blame.

    Free Will doesn't matter when you have somebody who can see into the future. They know the choices that people are going to make or else they really aren't seeing into the future.

    It's far better to believe that the Vigil don't know the future as it explains their bad choices far better then making them into a bunch of sadistic herp a depers who knowing that something will end bad, still do so anyway.

    Of course if you are a Defiant, this is exactly why you don't trust the Vigil. Either they have the power to see into the future and make all the right choices, but didn't in your future, or they don't and have proven to be no better then anybody else at solving the problem of the Blood Swarm.
    Last edited by TechnoMage; 02-24-2012 at 01:36 PM.

  11. #11
    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoMage View Post
    Free Will doesn't matter when you have somebody who can see into the future. They know the choices that people are going to make or else they really aren't seeing into the future.
    Every free choice represents a different potential future, branching infinitely into the future. That's the idea of the Multiverse, which Trion has apparently subscribed to when they brought in the idea of Omen Sight.

    The Vigil selected powerful Heroes who, in certain futures, could make the decisions that would prove to be Telara's salvation. However, when the time of testing arrived, Alsbeth and Kain both failed, while plenty of other characters proved to be reliable (there's even a reformed Cultist in the Guardians, acting as a prophet and teacher for the Vigil).

    So yeah. Free Will is everything when you have someone who can see into the future. Nothing is assured except that the possibility for both success and failure exists, and nobody can really know which will happen until the moment of truth. The Guardian Ascended player is meant to try to assure that victory is the outcome as often as possible. When the Vigil's faith in Kain fails, the Guardian Ascended is the one who pulls everyone through. Thus the Vigil's faith, while proven wrong in Kain, is vindicated in the Guardian Player.

    And I think that's an important point to stress. The Vigil places trust and faith in the Player ("You are our salvation." ~Messenger) as much as even the most devout and zealous Guardian places their faith in the Gods.
    Last edited by Morvick; 02-24-2012 at 02:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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