Why the hell is there a fetus in a jar in Meridian

[Mythue]

the 'second chances' I see are in the new souls that are given. The Guardian Ascended get these from Ascendants Hill, Cyril sends you there to get one. The Defiants get a new soul after doing the quest from the Faceless man, and then each of the factions when returning/going back, are told something entirely different than they were told when first becoming ascended.

One little thing I am trying to understand, is in the book the Price of Progress. It is said in this that the Guardian Ascended that they are studying in Terminus were caught in a soul net. You come across this book after seeing the Guardian Ascended Ravagers held captive, so I assumed that these were the ones caught, so I question did these ones return to a soul stream somehow? If I don't assume they are the same ones, then I assume that when the Vigil were ascending others, that somehow, while descending, they were caught.

When I look up Ravagers a definition is one that brings heavy destruction, so then I wonder, if this is what is meant by the Vigil saying, the ascended are instrusments of their own fate, so these ones caught were of the Guardian Ascended that attacked Meridian, and somehow re-entered the soul stream.

[Mythue]

and a little note these Guardian Ascended Ravagers become Ascended Spirits after the technicians do what they do to them.

[Mythue]

and another little note I think this is why I would so love to see quests with choices, with these choices somehow affecting an outcome, even if your choices make you an ally with Prince Hylas or Ember Scholars, or Cyril, or some such, that you do not begin as being red to the Guardians or red to the Defiants, that this only comes from the choices you make in-game.

[tau]

the 'second chances' I see are in the new souls that are given. The Guardian Ascended get these from Ascendants Hill, Cyril sends you there to get one. The Defiants get a new soul after doing the quest from the Faceless man, and then each of the factions when returning/going back, are told something entirely different than they were told when first becoming ascended.

One little thing I am trying to understand, is in the book the Price of Progress. It is said in this that the Guardian Ascended that they are studying in Terminus were caught in a soul net. You come across this book after seeing the Guardian Ascended Ravagers held captive, so I assumed that these were the ones caught, so I question did these ones return to a soul stream somehow? If I don't assume they are the same ones, then I assume that when the Vigil were ascending others, that somehow, while descending, they were caught.

When I look up Ravagers a definition is one that brings heavy destruction, so then I wonder, if this is what is meant by the Vigil saying, the ascended are instrusments of their own fate, so these ones caught were of the Guardian Ascended that attacked Meridian, and somehow re-entered the soul stream.

The souls they pull from the soulstream are the "main" soul, your character's own soul. I think that the souls they extract from the guardians are the multiple souls that were given to them by the vigil, not the soul of the guardian himself. At least that's how I understand it.

When the game launched you had to fight against the first original spirits of the classes like Nyx, Phynnious etc to possess their souls. I think it might have been removed because it conflicted with the rest of the lore. Either way, they're not extracting souls from guardians in meridian so I presume Orphiel was able to replicate the vigil's method with the knowledge the terminus defiants brought from the future.

[Mythue]

I am not entirely sure what you mean tau, so I am going to create another in Terminus to see.

How I am understanding it, is that the Defiants when first ascended at the Life factory, did ascend with their original soul from the soul stream, but then were given a new soul after doing the quest from the Faceless man. I 'think' it was Syhla's soul cleansed.

and I do think this too might have been changed from the original, it is like we always have to go back in time to see

[tau]

I am not entirely sure what you mean tau, so I am going to create another in Terminus to see.

How I am understanding it, is that the Defiants when first ascended at the Life factory, did ascend with their original soul from the soul stream, but then were given a new soul after doing the quest from the Faceless man. I 'think' it was Syhla's soul cleansed.

and I do think this too might have been changed from the original, it is like we always have to go back in time to see

It's like you say, they ascend with their original soul. That is the soul they pull from the soulstream.

The soul you take from Shyla might be her soul, or it could be one of her calling souls. Imo the Shyla quests in terminus are currently conflicting with the lore. You already have 8 souls when you start the game. When you absorb the soul you took from Shyla you don't get an extra one. Also, if you are an ascended warrior they only give you warrior souls, mages get mage souls etc. Shyla is a cleric. It doesn't make sense for warriors, mages and rogues to take a cleric soul.

[Vayra]

The souls they pull from the soulstream are the "main" soul, your character's own soul. I think that the souls they extract from the guardians are the multiple souls that were given to them by the vigil, not the soul of the guardian himself. At least that's how I understand it.

When the game launched you had to fight against the first original spirits of the classes like Nyx, Phynnious etc to possess their souls. I think it might have been removed because it conflicted with the rest of the lore. Either way, they're not extracting souls from guardians in meridian so I presume Orphiel was able to replicate the vigil's method with the knowledge the terminus defiants brought from the future.

The quests for the souls were removed simply because it was not fun and too much hassle getting the last souls.

[tau]

The quests for the souls were removed simply because it was not fun and too much hassle getting the last souls.

At first I thought that was the reason, but I don't remember anyone complaining about it. Instead I see people on the forum now saying they enjoyed those quests, and my guildies also said they liked those quests. I'm searching the forum for some Dev comments about this but I only find people complaining why the quests were removed.

Either way, it makes more sense lore-wise to remove them than for any other reason, especially now that there is a similar quest on EI.

[Mythue]

what I gathered from Terminus is that it has changed a bit from what I remember it being a while ago or I don't remember it as being this way. I remember unlocking souls as we travelled through.

When you begin now, Sylver asks, how you like your new Body? then in this same room you speak to a soul informer who says, I was made by Master Sylver to help you decide what your first soul will be, which made me think I was returned soulless, maybe like the Telaran Husks who souls have been consumed but are still able to move about.

Then in the second room you come across technicians who are performing experiments, transferring source anima from the captive Guardians into a body in a cyclinder, they are amazed that even in death this sourcestone matrix can hold six souls for a short period of time. In this same room you also have ones who are keeping or discarding souls that are being caught in a soul net.

Then as you travel along, with no more mention of souls, you meet up with the Faceless man, who gives you a quest,

http://rift.zam.com/en/quest/1324506...cle,-Reeducate

after doing this quest, you return the essences to the Faceless man who creates a procedure for you to cleanse this soul and after you perform this procedure, he tells you, By absorbing that new soul, you are now truly an Ascended. Overtime you will gain knowledge and power from all your souls.

So what is a Defiant Ascended to think?

and...

In the Sinkhole, could the 'Defiant of Old' that appears when we reactivate the source stone generator and temporal flux be Orphiel ?

[Mythue]

also, something else I did not notice before, there are ones in around Last Light that are creating portals, and slaves are being led there to be transported somewhere.

[tau]

In the Sinkhole, could the 'Defiant of Old' that appears when we reactivate the source stone generator and temporal flux be Orphiel ?

I don't think so. Orphiel was a mage and IIRC the "Defiant of Old" was a warrior with a poleaxe. I think Orphiel is far too clever to let himself get killed.

I have a few conspiracy theories about Orphiel:
1. There might be more than 1 Orphiel in this Telara, especially if he had another fail-safe. This could explain why Orphiel appears with 3 different personalities: The visionary who taught Asha and founded the defiant, the lunatic who helped Aedraxis and the secluded researcher who spends his days looking beyond the ward with his telescope.
2. The war is being orchestrated by Orphiel and the Messenger of the Vigil.
3. Orphiel has his own agenda which doesn't involve defiants, guardians or even saving Telara.
4. That telescope could be a weapon built to shoot down a dragon or maybe a god.

[Maeloda]

I don't think so. Orphiel was a mage and IIRC the "Defiant of Old" was a warrior with a poleaxe. I think Orphiel is far too clever to let himself get killed.

I have a few conspiracy theories about Orphiel:
1. There might be more than 1 Orphiel in this Telara, especially if he had another fail-safe. This could explain why Orphiel appears with 3 different personalities: The visionary who taught Asha and founded the defiant, the lunatic who helped Aedraxis and the secluded researcher who spends his days looking beyond the ward with his telescope.
2. The war is being orchestrated by Orphiel and the Messenger of the Vigil.
3. Orphiel has his own agenda which doesn't involve defiants, guardians or even saving Telara.
4. That telescope could be a weapon built to shoot down a dragon or maybe a god.

Unlike Morvick, I really really go with the idea that there are multiple Orphiels on Telara at different points, or at least Orphiels (good, bad, chaotic, helpful, evil, kindly) from various universes that are in some way interacting with our Telara. There might be a time travel element involved too, or even a cyclical time travel theory.

[Morvick]

Unlike Morvick, I really really go with the idea that there are multiple Orphiels on Telara at different points, or at least Orphiels (good, bad, chaotic, helpful, evil, kindly) from various universes that are in some way interacting with our Telara. There might be a time travel element involved too, or even a cyclical time travel theory.

I believe all those personalities can be contained within one person.
You give a self-doubting mind too little credit. Gonna do my best to psycho-analyze our friend Orphiel here, but as he's so very private, some of this will simply be going off my own friends and colleagues who have displayed similar behaviors and sentiments.


Bear with me. This won't be the raging hate-spew that some might expect when I talk about Farwind.
~~~
Starting near the time he meets Asha & Co., Orphiel has a grand vision to change the world, and he marvels at the power and capability of the Ancients in harnessing their world to do their whim. His romanticized ideals take root in the eager royal children (save for Zareph), and Orphiel himself feels vindicated and proud to be able to dispense this wisdom to them. However revolutionary and dangerous some might view his ideas to be, the man absolutely has his heart in the right place, and is looking for opportunities to start leaving his real mark. He wants to do his "great work".

When Aedraxis abuses his teacher's trust and uses the Magitech not to simply end the Mathosian Civil War, but to usher in the Rifts, the crushing blow to his dreams sends Orphiel into a spiral of self-doubt, feelings of betrayal, and anger. The peace he desires is surely shattered, along with the world he would have shared it with!! And yet, the Gods provide in very strange ways: these new beings, "Ascended", offer the promise of something terribly fantastic: a second chance. His vision may yet be realized, but to get there he might have to stoop just a little bit lower. In this mindset, the Guardian Player hears such "evil" phrases as "I will replicate Ascension and destroy you all!" The Guardian faction stands between Orphiel and his peace, progress, and dreams. They, like any obstacle, must be overcome.

He retreats to Port Scion under the rallying cry of Zareph, who he had personally tutored but apparently left a less-than-glowing impression upon. Orphiel is again able to demonstrate his usefulness in direct application of Magitech to the defense of the city for nearly twenty years, an impressive feat however you want to look at it (sure sure, there was an accompanying army of Telarans... which would have been corrupted without the Anti-Planar Shield produced by Magitech). During this time Orphiel can study the Ascended up-close if on his own private time. I'm sure that as often as he was wondering how to kill "the fool" Cyril, he was going through possible scenarios of how to replicate them.

Meridian, the Life Forges, and Asha enter the stage next, with Orphiel and his Defiants seeking refuge in the shelled Abyssal fortress. Here Orphiel is able to channel all his conflicting, painful, and dark emotions into a focused goal: replicate Ascension, and construct a Failsafe. He partially succeeds in these tasks, leading to a sudden influx of mighty Defiant Ascended that tell him of doomsday. Now he really has to hurry! Knowing that Telara is, as it always was, operating on borrowed time, Orphiel starts shutting out the 'distractions' of the war and struggles going on below his tower, for the most part. After all, what could possibly be more important than averting a Terminus? Maybe he could even assign Ascension to a still-living mortal...

In the future...?
The Orphiel who so maniacally tortures Poor Tom in Sanctum is from the future, most people agree on that. This is the very same Orphiel who was absent from Terminus, and can easily be the very same man you see brooding in a tower of Meridian as his visitors slow to a trickle. Imagine: a man with Orphiel's vision and past history, who has been the victim of horrible treachery and the accusations of a nation... free to zip through time and observe it all from such a distant and powerful perspective. If ever Orphiel Farwind was able to manipulate the world into a perfect peace and Renaissance, surely it would be when he had a grip on time itself, and a clear view of the nature of the Vigil Gods.

I believe Orphiel Farwind to be an amazingly complex character, and would not short-change him into simplified personalities that for some reason must be different people. Give him more credit than that (by comparison, Cyril Kalmar may as well be made from cardboard for all the depth he has).

[Maeloda]

I believe all those personalities can be contained within one person.
You give a self-doubting mind too little credit. Gonna do my best to psycho-analyze our friend Orphiel here, but as he's so very private, some of this will simply be going off my own friends and colleagues who have displayed similar behaviors and sentiments.


Bear with me. This won't be the raging hate-spew that some might expect when I talk about Farwind.
~~~
Starting near the time he meets Asha & Co., Orphiel has a grand vision to change the world, and he marvels at the power and capability of the Ancients in harnessing their world to do their whim. His romanticized ideals take root in the eager royal children (save for Zareph), and Orphiel himself feels vindicated and proud to be able to dispense this wisdom to them. However revolutionary and dangerous some might view his ideas to be, the man absolutely has his heart in the right place, and is looking for opportunities to start leaving his real mark. He wants to do his "great work".

When Aedraxis abuses his teacher's trust and uses the Magitech not to simply end the Mathosian Civil War, but to usher in the Rifts, the crushing blow to his dreams sends Orphiel into a spiral of self-doubt, feelings of betrayal, and anger. The peace he desires is surely shattered, along with the world he would have shared it with!! And yet, the Gods provide in very strange ways: these new beings, "Ascended", offer the promise of something terribly fantastic: a second chance. His vision may yet be realized, but to get there he might have to stoop just a little bit lower. In this mindset, the Guardian Player hears such "evil" phrases as "I will replicate Ascension and destroy you all!" The Guardian faction stands between Orphiel and his peace, progress, and dreams. They, like any obstacle, must be overcome.

He retreats to Port Scion under the rallying cry of Zareph, who he had personally tutored but apparently left a less-than-glowing impression upon. Orphiel is again able to demonstrate his usefulness in direct application of Magitech to the defense of the city for nearly twenty years, an impressive feat however you want to look at it (sure sure, there was an accompanying army of Telarans... which would have been corrupted without the Anti-Planar Shield produced by Magitech). During this time Orphiel can study the Ascended up-close if on his own private time. I'm sure that as often as he was wondering how to kill "the fool" Cyril, he was going through possible scenarios of how to replicate them.

Meridian, the Life Forges, and Asha enter the stage next, with Orphiel and his Defiants seeking refuge in the shelled Abyssal fortress. Here Orphiel is able to channel all his conflicting, painful, and dark emotions into a focused goal: replicate Ascension, and construct a Failsafe. He partially succeeds in these tasks, leading to a sudden influx of mighty Defiant Ascended that tell him of doomsday. Now he really has to hurry! Knowing that Telara is, as it always was, operating on borrowed time, Orphiel starts shutting out the 'distractions' of the war and struggles going on below his tower, for the most part. After all, what could possibly be more important than averting a Terminus? Maybe he could even assign Ascension to a still-living mortal...

In the future...?
The Orphiel who so maniacally tortures Poor Tom in Sanctum is from the future, most people agree on that. This is the very same Orphiel who was absent from Terminus, and can easily be the very same man you see brooding in a tower of Meridian as his visitors slow to a trickle. Imagine: a man with Orphiel's vision and past history, who has been the victim of horrible treachery and the accusations of a nation... free to zip through time and observe it all from such a distant and powerful perspective. If ever Orphiel Farwind was able to manipulate the world into a perfect peace and Renaissance, surely it would be when he had a grip on time itself, and a clear view of the nature of the Vigil Gods.

I believe Orphiel Farwind to be an amazingly complex character, and would not short-change him into simplified personalities that for some reason must be different people. Give him more credit than that (by comparison, Cyril Kalmar may as well be made from cardboard for all the depth he has).

This is very, very interesting. In any case, we'll see where he stands eventually.

[Morvick]

This is very, very interesting. In any case, we'll see where he stands eventually.

I agree. I can't wait to see what's revealed about Orphiel and the Vigil (likely a series of story-bits shown at the same time). Might be years from now, though. =[