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Thread: The Defiants are not "bad"/The Guardians are not "good" - alignment.

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    General of Telara Azendi's Avatar
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    Default The Defiants are not "bad"/The Guardians are not "good" - alignment.

    So from what I have read, this is the conclusion I can make. It seems that the Guardians are presented as the "good guys" in most reviews, and the Defiants as the "bad guys". However, I have almost gotten the idea that it's the other way around. Or is it simply neutral/neutral: they are both doing bad/good deeds etc?

    Discuss!

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    Telaran Hadrune's Avatar
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    Both pose to be the good guys and believe the other faction are wrong in their ways. So no I wouldn't talk about good/bad as if one could claim that title. There is only a different feel with both factions. Then again you will see many make easy judgments that darker atmosphere equals evil and shiny white equals good. /insert Yoda quote
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    General of Telara Azendi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadrune View Post
    Both pose to be the good guys and believe the other faction are wrong in their ways. So no I wouldn't talk about good/bad as if one could claim that title. There is only a different feel with both factions. Then again you will see many make easy judgments that darker atmosphere equals evil and shiny white equals good. /insert Yoda quote
    Suppose, I do very much like the idea of a "bright" and "divine" faction that isn't entirely good and benevolent. It creates some interesting contrast.

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    Soulwalker Mesoforte's Avatar
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    Last edited by Mesoforte; 01-19-2011 at 07:44 AM.

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    Shield of Telara Gwailo's Avatar
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    Guardians strike me as the "We found a witch, may we burn her" minus the "may we" part.

    But as lore would have it, both sides aren't overly particular in whom they recruit, the world is ending after all.

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    Plane Touched Anasasiel's Avatar
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    The two factions in Rift definitely do not equal good vs. evil. The evil is fairly obvious, but still gets complicated (dragon cults plaguing the Eth empire, king of the Mathosians responsible for the Shade, etc.) In this case, they both seem to sincerely want to save Telara. They both however, have very different worldviews and moral codes. They both also believe the other faction is at least partially (if not completely) responsible for the plight of Telara.

    On a tangent, it occurs to me that if the factions could truly become allies, as the races of Telara did for the Blood Storm wars, they could seal the Rifts forever and save Telara. Maybe that's written into the lore for 10 years in the future when it's time to close the servers down.

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    Rift Disciple DeRos's Avatar
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    Agreed I don't really look at them as either good or bad I look at them as two groups each with their own set of ideals, like republicans & democrats which is why i made the world wide faction map on our site which tracks where people stand around the world it no fun when everyone just gets along, its boring without opposition.
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    Telaran Darkfae's Avatar
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    Actually, it's stated in this article over at [A]List that it is NOT in any way shape or form meant to be a fight between "good" and "evil". The Guardian vs. Defiant concept is meant to reflect the real world conflict of Faith vs. Reason, which I've seen it as from the start of Lore becoming more prolific. Any site that paints them as a a "good" versus "evil" concept clearly is not really looking into the game very much, because the background stories and the quests clearly define that it is the Faith vs. Reason war.

    In a Faith vs. Reason war, both sides are going to be the bad guys at turns, because of their fanatical idealism. There are many real world historical events that prove that, but I'll take the most obvious one and throw it out here as reference.

    There's was a long standing schism between the Catholic Church and the realm of science, and at one point BOTH SIDES were taking or screwing up the lives of the opposing faction. Granted, this schism decreased dramatically during John Paul the Second's time as Pope, but on some levels, it still exists and BOTH SIDES are still taking turns at being the demons of the situation in their propaganda war. (No offense to any Catholics in the audience - my family on my father's side was traditionally Roman Catholic, but they were unafraid to point out the failings of their leadership over the course of history)

    Perhaps this kind of war is just too intellectually challenging for these writers to explain and/or realise, either that or they're just *****footing around because they have opinions about the real world Faith vs. Reason stalemate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesoforte View Post
    While I appreciate the examples, any alignment that has Rorshach as the example of Chaotic Good is deeply, horribly wrong.

    It's not a good/evil thing. Lawful/chaotic comes closer, but you could be a chaotic Guardian ("The gods have chosen to raise ME from the dead as a champion of Telara, and I will save the world MY own way!") or a lawful Defiant ("We are an army to save the world, all working together under the leadership of Orphiel and Asha Catari")

    I wouldn't even say it's a conflict between faith and reason quite as we understand it - the Guardians have pretty good reason to believe in the gods, not just 'mere blind faith'. It's more a case of exactly WHO you place your trust and faith in. Guardians believe in the wisdom and power of the gods; Defiants place their faith in the ingenuity and potential of mortals.

    Depending on your point of view, the Defiants have either taken the first steps beyond childhood and are realising that we can be as great as the gods if only we let ourselves realise it, or else they're guilty of breathtaking arrogance.

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