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Thread: The Defiant... and Clerics?

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    Soulwalker Anhelion's Avatar
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    Default The Defiant... and Clerics?

    In just about every lore that I can think of, clerics derive their power from divine forces bestowed on them by their given gods. It's sort of clear to me that the Vigil would not be all that down with helping any Defiants in a war against the Guardians -- so, where do Defiant clerics come from?

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anhelion View Post
    so, where do Defiant clerics come from?
    Think of the ancient Kelari.

    They commune with lesser spirits and small-time deities who grant the "worshiper" a boon of power in exchange for a service. To the Kelari (and I assume, any Defiant Cleric) this is seen as a transaction of services, not a pact of supplication.

    I'm sure even the Guardians are helped out by sanctioned, lesser spirits as well. For example, Druids summon uncorrupted Fae spirits as attacks, missiles, even pets.

    Defiants = a large host of lesser Planar beings as their covenant-bearers.
    Guardians = the five Vigil Gods of Telara, whom they willingly guard anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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    Shadowlander Baslisanne's Avatar
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    Also, the Bahmi practice ancestor worship. Since there are Bahmi clerics, one might assume that it's the ghosts of their forefathers giving them those powers.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    What the others said first. Remember to be a Cleric does not mean you worship THE god(s). Legend is filled with holy men and women who drew power from nature, spirits and the ancestors.

    Also do NOT forget that the defiant are NOT athiests. They absolutely believe in the vigil, they just feel the vigil is wrong in their narrow view of magitech as heretical and innately dangerous. If the power of a Cleric is simply based on belief/faith in a deity and is NOT power directly bestowed by the god, a defiant in theroy could still draw power from said gods.

    Also remember what happens when you ascend as a defiant. You are essentially taking power from another soul to augment yours. As such you could roleplay your cleric any of the following ways imo.

    1. Your power comes from the spirits of nature themselves (calling them "lesser" I think is a tad arrogant. Spirits are "primal" the gods are more "coherent" (for lack of a better term). One does not mean more or less power necessarily)
    2. Ancestors.
    3. Belief in the gods. The Pope said Martin Luther was a heretic. Others, and Luther himself, felt that he wa s a blessed man. Remember though belief and obedience are two different things. Clearly the Vigil is not omnipotent nor omniscient so I find this still a possibility.
    4. Drawing on the power of an essentially vampirically absorbed soul.

    Pick your poison and have fun.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Soulwalker
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    I don't think any of those really fit an Eth cleric though.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izmina View Post
    I don't think any of those really fit an Eth cleric though.
    Well the last sure does, magitech ripping the power from one soul and giving it to another. Also the world was, according to the creation myth, created by the gods and populated by them. Even the Eth can not help but believe they are powerful beings and this belief provides power. If one can be an astronomer or physicist working at http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Observatory with absolute faith in the omniscience and omnipotence of God with out proof that he exists, I don't see why an Eth would not be able to draw power from belief in a being that there is tanginle proof in the existance of. Again belief in the power of a being does not by definition mean one sees them as infallible or that you can not disagree with them either.

    I use a slightly more complicated version of the belief theory with my Eth cleric that is based on the idea of Jungian theories of the mass unconscious and the like. Essentially old beliefs die hard and even when one has turned from the gods, sub consciously one can not but believe in their power because you KNOW they created the world.
    Last edited by Galibier; 02-03-2012 at 11:01 AM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Rift Disciple GothWulfe's Avatar
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    That's also making the assumption that the Vigil are the ONLY Gods. Granted, they haven't mentioned the names of any others, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there. Hells, for all we know, the Vigil aren't even the most powerful of the pantheon....just because you and a few of your friends made something, dosen't mean that you are the top of the food chain, all it means sometimes is that no one else with the power/ability was interested in doing it.

    And no where does it say that the Defiants are atheists....just that they have turned their back on the Vigil...that doesn't mean however that there aren't plenty of Defiants that follow one or more of the other Gods, thus explaining where Defiant clerics get their power if you are going on the assumption that they receive it from divine forces.

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GothWulfe View Post
    That's also making the assumption that the Vigil are the ONLY Gods. Granted, they haven't mentioned the names of any others
    Sure they have! Greenscale, Akylios, Regulos, Maelforge, Laethys, Crucia. That's my working theory, anyway.

    The Vigil may not be the most powerful -alone-, but it's rare that any one entity is. The polar personalities of the Vigil Gods remind me of Norse and Greek tradition, and their relative strength magnifies as they ally with other Gods who cover for their weaknesses. As The Five, the Vigil Gods become more than the sum of their counsel. (And who can say why they communicate strictly through Messengers, though themselves remaining silent? That's still an utter mystery at this point.)

    Alone? Thedeor might be slain by Regulos. But together as The Five? No one Bloodstorm Dragon/God could hope to defeat the unified Vigil. That's why the possibility of the Bloodstorm reuniting again is so terrifying, because not even the full combined might of the Vigil, Magitech, nor Ascended could hope to defeat such an unconquerable array of foes. (They barely even imprisoned the Dragons the first time around, when they were divided into factions)

    And beneath the mighty Gods, there lies a sliding scale of powerful Planar Beings who range in might from Lesser Dragon to Planar Pushovers (i.e., the kind you find bopping around Ember Isle as cute bug-eyed airheads). It's my belief that the Ascended lie somewhere near the middle of this arbitrary scale. So an Ascended, Defiant or otherwise, should certainly be able to make use of lesser planar beings, and still remain defineably a Cleric.
    Last edited by Morvick; 02-16-2012 at 06:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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    Rift Disciple GothWulfe's Avatar
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    Hehe....I meant other then the dragons. I've ran across plenty of references to "lesser gods" or "gods" in different places...references that IMO signify that there are other gods then the Vigil <mainly because when talking about the Vigil then the term "the Vigil" is always used.> So the way I see it, there are others, they just havn't been named as of yet because they weren't really "involved" in the story as it was put forth.....not yet anyway. I'm holding onto the hope that at some point the pantheon will be fleshed out a bit more.

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