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Thread: Will a Rift lore character ever reach these heights?

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    Rift Disciple Vyndeta's Avatar
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    Default Will a Rift lore character ever reach these heights?

    My grandmother knows who Thrall is... My dog cowers when I say Lich King.

    These characters are richly detailed, voice acted and poster boarded. Most of my friends couldn't care less for lore in MMO's as long as they are killing something but when we dropped the Lich King back in the day Vent went SILENT... We had just killed him and people actually "hushed" others to hear every single word the Lich King spoke while he struggled for his last few breaths. This was in my opinion on of the most epic events in MMO history and one that may never be trumped. For a moment the world was suspended in place, chills ran through my arms, I simply could not have asked for a better cap to a truly epic character. RIP to the Vader of WoW.

    Thrall is another example, his story is amazing and the scale of what he is put through is amazing. Another character that my buddies would talk about before we came to Rift.

    My point in all of this:

    Will Rift ever expand on any of their characters and make them legends? And what really delivers a character to the players? I'll tell you one thing, seeing them randomly on quests and reading walls of text aren't it. This is the 21st century, give the major lore characters a voice on a regular basis. I've said it many many times before and I'll say it again. Rift has an incredibly rich and detailed story... sadly the team at Trion is doing an in-justice with it's delivery. When I am talking with one of my buddies about Asha and he says "Who's that?"... I feel slighted by the crew telling the story. I was pumped for the chronicles because I thought I was going into a rich story telling experience and I was more than let down. The attunement chronicles did a nice job but the HK and GSB chronicles did very little for the story.

    Trion feed us starving lore nerds in the game. I promise if you actually do something with your characters and make players genuinely care because the story is told well, people will flock to this game and stay here.

    Rift has a ridiculous amount of potential and Trion can have it's seat among the MMO gods but it needs depth. You need more than a good story Trion... you need to tell it well!

  2. #2
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    Blizzard had something special...

    They had Warcraft 3, which basically created a form of hero(and villain) worship, because people played those characters. The wildly successful RTS lead into an MMO that had a well established story that people already knew before they started playing the game.

    The story of Arthas wasn't anything particularly new. Overzealous good guy falls to corruption, becomes bad guy. The build up over the content patches. The exposure to the Lich King through leveling in Northrend, all of it just built him up.

    The closest thing(and its far far away) that I've felt in rift are the two defiant who you keep interacting with as you level up. Sadly I can't remember their names, but if I saw them in game I'd know them. They did make me stop and start reading the quests involving the two, because they were re-occurring characters.

    Asha definitely has a bit of clout going with her too.

    I think in time if Rift remains popular they can ascend to the heights of having well known characters, but the world has no past history and is resting on what the MMO does.

    As far as lore and story goes, I think in a way Instant Adventures was a major ding against the lore. My latest character I leveled up from 45 to 50 in a day or two(maybe three) on instant adventures. It is a wonderful feature, it lets you get in, mindlessly kill things, get stuff, and have fun. Its great. But that was 5 levels of quests and lore that I will end up going back to.

    Trion has to make us care about the characters for them to gain popularity. Videos, stories, background. It also has to be chopped down into tiny bits for the attention span deficient. I still remember in the early days of WoW, the wiki full of info. Reading about whatever, right click, open new tab about this clan or that demon. I'd end up with two dozen tabs to read through. Blizzard had a rich history and it took time to build. Trion has a great opportunity with Rift to make it a compelling story,but they need some time to make the build characters popular

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara
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    Just have the Faceless Man talk to them.

    THEY WILL REMEMBER.

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    They actually changed some of the voice acting for some reason. The voice of Elliam sounded like a bad (expletive) Samuel L Jackson and the voice of Jakob was positively crypt like. They changed it for some reason and I still shake my head as too why.

    That said I think right now Trion has their hads full putting out stuff to play. All the voice overs and such did not stem "give us more content we are out " and "this is a content update?" You had 6 odd month into an expac in WoW.

    When Trion feels like they have a stable core of customers they will probably do stuff like that. There were not a lot if voice overs in EQ2 when Hartsman was there but there was A LOT of story. Tou don't spend money like that though until your foundation is solid and Trion's concrete is still setting so to speak.
    Last edited by Galibier; 12-09-2011 at 10:58 PM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Rift Disciple Vyndeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terram View Post
    Just have the Faceless Man talk to them.

    THEY WILL REMEMBER.
    Nice.

    Those of us that have been here since Beta understand the story pretty well but man did we have to work for it...

    Trion! Cutscenes... voice overs, go go go!

    Asha is likely the coolest character I've read about (Yea Im that guy standing around in town reading the books I've gotten from quests) How many players in this game do you think actually read these things? I'd wager to guess less than 3% and thats a shame because they're good!

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    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    I was actually sort of liking the comparative lack of Mary Sues in the Rift lore.

    I tried an experiment once in WoW. I described, in general terms, Thrall's backstory and behavior during the Wrathgate quest chain. I just described it as "some guy I grouped with". You know; that guy who plays a shaman, barely uses any of his powers, wields a 1H weapon with no offhand, and basically auto-attacks through everything, and his character background claims that he's close friends with leaders of the Alliance and is highly placed in the horde.

    The people who didn't recognize who I was talking about concluded that he probably bought his character on eBay, because a player more familiar with the lore wouldn't make mistakes like that. :P

    So... Fact is, I like this lore a lot better. The warcraft lore was heavily reliant on people carrying the idiot ball for whole expansion packs at a time. About all I could come up with for caring about WoW's lore was being offended that they were actually making it stupider for Cataclysm, when I'd thought it was pretty bad already.

    I would love to see the rift people stick with their actually-consistent world, and characters who could conceivably occur without the benefit of a writers' guild strike.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

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    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    I barely know what lich king is and no idea what thrall is. I feel very left-out right now.
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    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndeta View Post
    Nice.

    Those of us that have been here since Beta understand the story pretty well but man did we have to work for it...

    Trion! Cutscenes... voice overs, go go go!

    Asha is likely the coolest character I've read about (Yea Im that guy standing around in town reading the books I've gotten from quests) How many players in this game do you think actually read these things? I'd wager to guess less than 3% and thats a shame because they're good!
    "My wisdom, your coin, A FAIR TRADE."

    I really have to wonder which Trion employee voiced that placeholder before they managed to get Liam O'Brien.

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    Rift Chaser squafro's Avatar
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    OP is obviously is a defiant and knows nothing about SCOTTY MALM! ALL HAIL RUNE KING SCOTTY MALM!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    I was actually sort of liking the comparative lack of Mary Sues in the Rift lore.

    I tried an experiment once in WoW. I described, in general terms, Thrall's backstory and behavior during the Wrathgate quest chain. I just described it as "some guy I grouped with". You know; that guy who plays a shaman, barely uses any of his powers, wields a 1H weapon with no offhand, and basically auto-attacks through everything, and his character background claims that he's close friends with leaders of the Alliance and is highly placed in the horde.

    The people who didn't recognize who I was talking about concluded that he probably bought his character on eBay, because a player more familiar with the lore wouldn't make mistakes like that. :P

    So... Fact is, I like this lore a lot better. The warcraft lore was heavily reliant on people carrying the idiot ball for whole expansion packs at a time. About all I could come up with for caring about WoW's lore was being offended that they were actually making it stupider for Cataclysm, when I'd thought it was pretty bad already.

    I would love to see the rift people stick with their actually-consistent world, and characters who could conceivably occur without the benefit of a writers' guild strike.
    Thrall had the spirit wolves first, before it was handed out to all the shaman...

    The Troll leader had mass frog polymorph, I think...

    Tyrande just killed everybody back in vanilla.

    Trying to glue Thrall into the shaman class is kind of silly. There was an old OOTS comic where they make fun of people who think that in order to be a samurai they had to have the samurai base class or master samurai PrC. You set people up for failure doing that. Sort of like the old "Don't look down" statement makes people look down. Tell them its a PC they automatically ignore that it could be an NPC, except people familiar with the jokes about how the Leaders aren't really of the MMO classes.

    Either way...

    The death of the Lich King(and Illidan) had a lot of build up to them.

    Vanilla WoW the first big baddies were fresh victims. You started off with the raids that weren't even really raids: Scholo/BRD(or was it BRS...). Molten Core introduced Ragnaros, who was an unknown until then. Next came Nefarion. The third big evil(Kel'thuzad) was only a minor character in WC3. Bosses were known far more for their rough mechanics(Aww the pleasure of MMOs back in their infancy) than any sort of big lore thing.

    Burning Crusade brought about the fact that you might get to fight Illidan... But yet the expansion didn't start out with him. First you got the nostalgia factor of the caverns of time. Going back in time to relive great moments of the past; this had two major impacts. First, WC3 lore buffs got to drool over playing their character in the great stories of the past. Second, new people got to run a story heavy instance and have their interest in the lore sparked.

    My WC3 knowledge might be rusty, But Kael'thas and the Naga Queen weren't there or were minor characters. Finally they opened it up to being able to kill 2 of the big names from the lore, Archimonde and Illidan...

    The story or marketing team from Blizzard did a wonderful job of cultivating fan interest in the big names, while introducing the new big baddies and getting them a fan base. It wasn't perfect, some people liked it, others didn't, but overall it went well.

    Let's look at Rift:

    Now I personally haven't raided yet. Not sure I'm ready for raiding again after avatar recall rosters in EQ2, and years of WoW heroics, but that's not important to this discussion.

    There is a great back story. The dragons invade Telara, leaders of the different planes trying to capture it, etc. Yeah I'm oversimplifying it, but as a casual lore fan of rift. I see the big dragons as the head honchos of their planes. The big bad evils that are threatening us. Regulos destroyed the world in one future right?

    So in the first major raid, we kill Lord Greenscale? First raid, big leader of the Dragon Cult of the Life plane gets slain?

    Akylios in Hammerknell too?

    Maybe they abuse a little deus ex machina and escape? I personally don't know but that's what I see when I glance at the wiki and read about them.

    Big bad evil guys generally don't come across as big bad and evil if we have already bumped off 2 of the 6...

    Perhaps there is some great hidden story that we don't know that will be sprung on us as we polish off the next four Dragon Gods...

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Cerium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terram View Post
    "My wisdom, your coin, A FAIR TRADE."

    I really have to wonder which Trion employee voiced that placeholder before they managed to get Liam O'Brien.
    I really want to know why every trader has had their supplier killed by goblins ..... and where is all the loot the goblins supposedly have.... and furthermore, why haven't these merchant's changed their trade routes so they have a better selection of items to sell!
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMorin View Post
    The more people play Rift and subscribe, the more time and money we have to continue to evolve the game....

    "Cerium, glowers at you dubiously -- looks like he would wipe the floor with you!"

  12. #12
    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    My take on killing the dragons:

    I think we kill them about as permanently as they kill us. They've already said that the dragons aren't actually the Blood Storm.

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/world/history/bloodstorm.php
    A sailor might see a shark feed, and say he has seen hunger, or through a shark’s black eyes he might understand hunger and go mad. This is the difference between the true nature of the Blood Storm, and the dragon forms they take upon Telara.
    Which is to say: Yeah, we "killed" "Greenscale". I think they are making it pretty clear that, in lore, killing the dragons is about as big a deal to them as killing ascended is to us. Which is to say, not a big deal.

    This is a sort of neat conceit; it allows us to have the fun of killing the bosses, without the huge suspension of disbelief issues from doing so repeatedly. We know that these are manifestations.

    I think Trion's doing a better job in that respect; the lore actually allows for the experiences we have. When you killed Onyxia, there was no particular explanation on offer for why she was still there next week, or why your friends could go kill her the same day. At least rift gives us that -- and also lets us know that we're just starting to beat on these guys.

    The expansion pack levelling thing sort of killed the WoW lore bosses for me. Molten Core is SO hard... oh, wait, I spent thirty bucks and now a couple of my friends and I can go steamroll most of it. Heck, a friend of mine and I duoed the first pull once at 70. Same thing with WotLK killing the BC bosses, etcetera. They weren't even interesting. So instead we did stuff like get a handful of people together to try to help someone who was only level 60 tame a core hound (which was a lot harder than doing it for an 80, lemme tell you!).

    We'll see how things shape up, but right now, if I had to pick one story to follow through and find out how the writers intended it to go, I'd take rift over wow any day of the week. I don't actually hate the leaders of either faction, for instance; last I checked, wow had killed off all the leaders who weren't morons.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerium View Post
    I really want to know why every trader has had their supplier killed by goblins ..... and where is all the loot the goblins supposedly have.... and furthermore, why haven't these merchant's changed their trade routes so they have a better selection of items to sell!
    I want to know why so many women are so angry..."DEATH TO THE DRAGONS!" even from a healer. The men say "death to the dragons" like you would say "sleep tight." I know there is a monthly cycle joke out there but I am fighting it.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    My take on killing the dragons:

    I think we kill them about as permanently as they kill us. They've already said that the dragons aren't actually the Blood Storm.

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/world/history/bloodstorm.php
    A sailor might see a shark feed, and say he has seen hunger, or through a shark’s black eyes he might understand hunger and go mad. This is the difference between the true nature of the Blood Storm, and the dragon forms they take upon Telara.
    Which is to say: Yeah, we "killed" "Greenscale". I think they are making it pretty clear that, in lore, killing the dragons is about as big a deal to them as killing ascended is to us. Which is to say, not a big deal.

    This is a sort of neat conceit; it allows us to have the fun of killing the bosses, without the huge suspension of disbelief issues from doing so repeatedly. We know that these are manifestations.

    I think Trion's doing a better job in that respect; the lore actually allows for the experiences we have. When you killed Onyxia, there was no particular explanation on offer for why she was still there next week, or why your friends could go kill her the same day. At least rift gives us that -- and also lets us know that we're just starting to beat on these guys.

    The expansion pack levelling thing sort of killed the WoW lore bosses for me. Molten Core is SO hard... oh, wait, I spent thirty bucks and now a couple of my friends and I can go steamroll most of it. Heck, a friend of mine and I duoed the first pull once at 70. Same thing with WotLK killing the BC bosses, etcetera. They weren't even interesting. So instead we did stuff like get a handful of people together to try to help someone who was only level 60 tame a core hound (which was a lot harder than doing it for an 80, lemme tell you!).

    We'll see how things shape up, but right now, if I had to pick one story to follow through and find out how the writers intended it to go, I'd take rift over wow any day of the week. I don't actually hate the leaders of either faction, for instance; last I checked, wow had killed off all the leaders who weren't morons.
    Rift has given an explanation for death of the ascended and extending it to the dragons being manifestations(or avatars to go back to D&D terms) makes sense, but that sort of sucks the value out of the villain.

    WoW didn't really have an explanation for death. As far as the story goes, the heroes never died. Death and resurrection was a mechanic of the MMO which makes it playable(a hardcore MMO(as in diablo hardcore, you die your character was gne permanently) would be awful, it would be a great research project, but just awful). This gave substance to the villain. When the story progressed and the Lich King was dead, it made it feel like more of an accomplishment. Nefarion and Onyxia returning as undead or constructs, whatever was a nice progression to the story. WoW killed off the leaders to create a more involved story, to make it feel like the world changed. Not everyone is going to like the vehicle they chose. The vacating of the leadership by the (sort of) peaceful Thrall to the more warlike whats-his-name was interesting. Between the new King of Stormwind and new Warchief, it reminded people that the alliance and horde hate each other.

    Blizzard made some lore decisions that were based on mechanics and while they seem sort of hamfisted into the story, they probably made for good sales. I know I was really annoyed when they basically retconned Blood Knights.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The manifestations of the Dragons makes it all seem pointless...

    Hey look we killed Greenscale... huh now there is instantly a new leader of the green dragons, LightGreenScale...

    Now on the other hand, that mentality could lead to bigger and better things. Traveling to the plane of life and actually killing the "real" blood storm god of the plane of life, maybe more weight to it. But how can you love a formless mass that can probably manifest as whatever it wants?

    Without a means of permanent death, the story can't ever truly progress. Sort of like living in the fabled Valhalla. New day, time to go kill the same people we killed yesterday. That's a fine mentality from a mechanics suspension of disbelief MMO point of view, but not from a lore standpoint.

  15. #15
    Champion kirsch's Avatar
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    barely even read the OP and I am sure I am repeating several people here but I just have to say that

    I strongly disagree

    nothing you mentioned is particularly compelling to me. the story of thrall and of arthas and illidan are pretty 'classic' to gamers but nothing special. it is mostly due to them being in good games, good character design, and time. if I said "thrall" or "lich king" to anyone I know other than like two of my friends they would have no idea what I am talking about.

    "lich king" is in the name of a freaking world of warcraft expansion and they would still literally have no idea

    so I am not sure what you are talking about
    Last edited by kirsch; 12-10-2011 at 04:17 AM.

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