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Thread: Lore and quest questions from a new player.

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Lore and quest questions from a new player.

    I have been playing a defiant mostly since i started, and i really like their concept. Mixing tech an magic and telling the gods to shove it. Its nice to see a faction with some backbone.

    But im curious to hear opinions, as far as other people feel which side has a more entertaining story line (quest lines.)

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    This isnt an easy questiong to answer. Both factions stories have been done very well.

    The Defiants definately have a more personal touch to their major leveling quest chains. You get to know Adriana Weaver and Uriel and Kira far more personal than you get to know Scotty and the 12th.

    Having said that the Guardian quests tend to focus on the people involved in pretty major plot points. We get to see the Growth of the Heir of Hammerknell on one hand and the fall of Kain on the other.

    Personally I ended up playing both factions to learn both stories and Im glad I did. Theres so much you dont actually get to see playing through as just one side. Some people have difficulties playing the other faction because of the inherent bias both factions have built into their attitudes but if you can get past that and get to know both factions they both have great stories.

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    I can say that I really enjoyed the Guardian factions' quests, mostly because I've been able to happily level up 5 Guardian characters to 50 and keep learning more of the story every time I do (like watching a movie a second or third time to really catch the details).

    I'm sure one day I'll be able to set aside my anti-Defiant bias and go through their quests. Having completed a few I can say right off the bat that they feature a bit more humor and satire, and definitely focus on individual people. The focus on the Defiants' unstoppable ambition, however, has turned me off from them -- I prefer the resolute and steadfast Guardians.

    Plus, the Guardians seem to spend an inordinate amount of time cleaning up Defiant messes or preventing the Defiants' arrogance from doing the locals any harm -- Scarwood Reach and the failing Wards over it is a prime example.
    Last edited by Morvick; 11-01-2011 at 06:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Its hard to leave bias behind while playing the other faction since you can see where communication breaks down.

    Defiants are not as blinded by ambition as it seems particularly at the start. The ideals of the Defiants about empowerment of the many and progress and development as a group are quite noble. There are cases where it goes wrong but underpining it all is a sense of striving to empower the people.

    This is probably why they end up having such an anti vigil stance. To a defiant the Vigil and reliance on the gods breeds relaince on the gods and denys people he chance to learn to stand on thier own. It isnt just about ambition but about freedom to empower ones self and grow as an individual (and grow as a culture.)

    This isnt an entirely fair view of the Vigil and it potentially leads to reckless rebellion and dismissing of warnings but you can see where they come from particularly if you play them through.

    The other side of it its that the Defiants intend to save the world. They dont see the Vigil up to the job particularly in light of the events of Terminus and as such strive to do what is neccesary so that there is a Telara for the future.

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    It's interesting to keep hearing things that the Guardians also have as cornerstones, especially what you said about empowerment.

    A lot of Defiant fanatics reach the forums and flame the Guardians for being pushovers or for crying to the Vigil every time they have a problem, because that's their default expectation when presented with any group that is religious -- particularly one that is subject to negative and false propaganda at the hands of their home faction. I'm not saying the Guardians don't demonize the Defiants, they sure like to do that, but it's a fault that each faction seems to almost wear proudly on its chest, like a mark of achievement.
    "Dirty, filthy, groveling Guardians wouldn't know inspiration and self-reliance if it stabbed them in the chest while they were praying."
    "Idiotic and short-sighted Defiants have no consideration that they could be wrong, and that the Vigil's plan encompasses even their selfish attitudes."

    The Guardians believe in personal empowerment, possibly even more strongly than the Defiants, because to them that is what the Vigil asks of them. You can see this during the "Scotty" trans-zone Questline, beginning in Quicksilver College in Silverwood. One poster (an anti-Guardian) pointed to these quests as systematic Victim-blaming on part of the Guardians, but I don't think they could have been more wrong.

    The Guardian player arrives at the college and finds a student who is being picked on. The teachers and one senior student enlist your help in strengthening Scotty to face his own demons by himself -- that's the reality of their world. If Scotty needs to wait for someone to help him every time he's in a pickle, he'll eventually die or fail from that expectation. It would be a disservice to the people Scotty was brought back to save to not make him stronger and self-reliant. The Guardians you find in Terminus would be a shame on the Guardian faction if Cyril or Borrin ever saw them today -- they may even be cast out for their foolishness. None of the Guardians in the present-day are sitting around waiting for the Vigil to swoop down on resplendent wings and save them all. Any that do have that expectation are always disappointed, and they seem to be the ones who defect from the Guardian Faction in general. Most Guardians realize that the Vigil bringing them back is the most they can expect; the rest is on their own shoulders, and they're OK with that -- the Vigil guides them, and they're more than happy to do the heavy lifting in the "Save the world" scheme.

    How often am I running around Sanctum and a patrolling Guard will bellow to me, "Faith may give us strength, but skill assures victory!" The Guardian Faith is not their all-encompassing answer: it simply forms the basis from which they make decisions. They always act knowing that they're doing so on limited information. The Defiants seem to think -- and maybe in a few cases they really do -- that they can predict all the outcomes. A Guardian reads this as arrogance; that what you know encompasses whatever could happen. The faithful repeatedly remind themselves that "we can only know a portion of the Vigil's plan" and that it's the Ascended's job to learn that plan and inform the faction. Do keep in mind that both factions are subject to making mistakes -- not even the Defiants understand what a Sliver is, not that the Guardian theory of them is any closer to or farther from the truth. (Defiants believe they are chaos-generated random alternate realities that can be used to draw insight, and the Guardians believe they are visions of worlds gone to hell that the Vigil shows them to help them train for war against the cults)

    So like I said, they have their similarities, but they're mostly differentiated in process. I have a certain Guardian-born contempt for the Defiants' machines, and am generally under-impressed with that mode of saving the world. "Yawn, more technology?" says my Inner Me, "I can just turn on my iPod for technology. Now I ask you, how often can I summon a ******* Valkyrie to intimidate my foes and smite half an army if they stand in my way? Yeah, I'm playing a Guardian."
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    I have played through the defiant up to level 19 (which i know is a tiny amount,) but i can see where they let the tech side of things go a lil wild. Since then i have tried a lil bit of the guardians and i actually seem to enjoy them more. Not so much when it comes to direct story.. im just not a goody goody knight type of person but i do really like the zone layout for the start (after the intro missions that is). It just had a nice feel to it, i think im actually going to stick with the guardians for now. Make my new elf bard my main, plus guardian elves seem to look a lil better.

    One thing i do have to give credit to trion for doing is tying the intros together. For example, i cant remember her name but the human defiant boss girl was the first to be resurrected with any kind of power. And then during the quests for the defiant elves the idle chatter talks about her being a great assassin but being killed.

    So in the gaurdian intro you can stumble onto her corpse out in the fields in the later parts of the quest lines.

    So its just kind of neat that they paid so much attention to the minor details. So few mmos really go into story depth anymore. Its always just pvp or boring raids.

    Anyway off to bed with me, 1:30 in the morning and im not even positive anything i just said makes sence lol.

  7. #7
    Sword of Telara
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    And then during the quests for the defiant elves the idle chatter talks about her being a great assassin but being killed.
    They're PROBABLY talking about Kira Thanos. Asha Catari is a mage. She actually went to Quicksilver College with Alsbeth back before she went crazy and killed King Zareph.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macinley1 View Post
    I have played through the defiant up to level 19 (which i know is a tiny amount,) but i can see where they let the tech side of things go a lil wild. Since then i have tried a lil bit of the guardians and i actually seem to enjoy them more. Not so much when it comes to direct story.. im just not a goody goody knight type of person but i do really like the zone layout for the start (after the intro missions that is). It just had a nice feel to it, i think im actually going to stick with the guardians for now. Make my new elf bard my main, plus guardian elves seem to look a lil better.

    One thing i do have to give credit to trion for doing is tying the intros together. For example, i cant remember her name but the human defiant boss girl was the first to be resurrected with any kind of power. And then during the quests for the defiant elves the idle chatter talks about her being a great assassin but being killed.

    So in the gaurdian intro you can stumble onto her corpse out in the fields in the later parts of the quest lines.

    So its just kind of neat that they paid so much attention to the minor details. So few mmos really go into story depth anymore. Its always just pvp or boring raids.

    Anyway off to bed with me, 1:30 in the morning and im not even positive anything i just said makes sence lol.
    They're talking about another character, Kira Thanos.

    You'll find her in Meridian, once you get there - her and Uriel's story goes through Freemarch, into Stonefield, Scarlet Gorge, Scarwood Reach...etc. until Stillmoor. They help make the faction more personable than the Guardian faction can sometimes feel.

    The one you're thinking of is Asha Catari, the de-facto Defiant leader. She has story too, but it is more spread out (a bit in Stonefield, a bit in Scarwood Reach, etc).

  9. #9
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morvick View Post
    It's interesting to keep hearing things that the Guardians also have as cornerstones, especially what you said about empowerment.

    A lot of Defiant fanatics reach the forums and flame the Guardians for being pushovers or for crying to the Vigil every time they have a problem, because that's their default expectation when presented with any group that is religious -- particularly one that is subject to negative and false propaganda at the hands of their home faction. I'm not saying the Guardians don't demonize the Defiants, they sure like to do that, but it's a fault that each faction seems to almost wear proudly on its chest, like a mark of achievement.
    "Dirty, filthy, groveling Guardians wouldn't know inspiration and self-reliance if it stabbed them in the chest while they were praying."
    "Idiotic and short-sighted Defiants have no consideration that they could be wrong, and that the Vigil's plan encompasses even their selfish attitudes."

    The Guardians believe in personal empowerment, possibly even more strongly than the Defiants, because to them that is what the Vigil asks of them. You can see this during the "Scotty" trans-zone Questline, beginning in Quicksilver College in Silverwood. One poster (an anti-Guardian) pointed to these quests as systematic Victim-blaming on part of the Guardians, but I don't think they could have been more wrong.

    The Guardian player arrives at the college and finds a student who is being picked on. The teachers and one senior student enlist your help in strengthening Scotty to face his own demons by himself -- that's the reality of their world. If Scotty needs to wait for someone to help him every time he's in a pickle, he'll eventually die or fail from that expectation. It would be a disservice to the people Scotty was brought back to save to not make him stronger and self-reliant. The Guardians you find in Terminus would be a shame on the Guardian faction if Cyril or Borrin ever saw them today -- they may even be cast out for their foolishness. None of the Guardians in the present-day are sitting around waiting for the Vigil to swoop down on resplendent wings and save them all. Any that do have that expectation are always disappointed, and they seem to be the ones who defect from the Guardian Faction in general. Most Guardians realize that the Vigil bringing them back is the most they can expect; the rest is on their own shoulders, and they're OK with that -- the Vigil guides them, and they're more than happy to do the heavy lifting in the "Save the world" scheme.

    How often am I running around Sanctum and a patrolling Guard will bellow to me, "Faith may give us strength, but skill assures victory!" The Guardian Faith is not their all-encompassing answer: it simply forms the basis from which they make decisions. They always act knowing that they're doing so on limited information. The Defiants seem to think -- and maybe in a few cases they really do -- that they can predict all the outcomes. A Guardian reads this as arrogance; that what you know encompasses whatever could happen. The faithful repeatedly remind themselves that "we can only know a portion of the Vigil's plan" and that it's the Ascended's job to learn that plan and inform the faction. Do keep in mind that both factions are subject to making mistakes -- not even the Defiants understand what a Sliver is, not that the Guardian theory of them is any closer to or farther from the truth. (Defiants believe they are chaos-generated random alternate realities that can be used to draw insight, and the Guardians believe they are visions of worlds gone to hell that the Vigil shows them to help them train for war against the cults)

    So like I said, they have their similarities, but they're mostly differentiated in process. I have a certain Guardian-born contempt for the Defiants' machines, and am generally under-impressed with that mode of saving the world. "Yawn, more technology?" says my Inner Me, "I can just turn on my iPod for technology. Now I ask you, how often can I summon a ******* Valkyrie to intimidate my foes and smite half an army if they stand in my way? Yeah, I'm playing a Guardian."
    I tend to come across as rather one sided alot in my posts. Thats mainly because Im usually trying to discribe the personality and attitudes of a faction and by the nature of the factions they tend to stereotype their opposite faction.

    The Guardians are very much into self empowerment. The end of the Scotty quest in Silverwood wasnt about victim blaming. It was about victim empowerment. You helped Scotty gain the strenght to stand up for himself.

    Theres actually a quote from on the Shrine of Calwyn Mathos in Scarwood that somes it up brilliantly. I need to check to quote it correctly but from memory its something like 'We should look to the gods for guidance but it is up to us to shape the world with our own strength'.

    This is one of the subtlies the make the Guardians distinct from just a group of religious fanatics. The nature of the gods themselves dictate behaviour in their followers that balance honoring and following the guidance of the gods, and yet keeping open minded and inquisitive.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander xhiimon's Avatar
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    I recently started playing through the Guardian side of Rift, having previously maxed three Defiant characters. I think it would be a shame to pay a subscription and only ever experience half of the game. When it comes to the lore, which is something I'm very interested in in Rift, I think it's fascinating to get to see both sides of the coin - even though the tedium of "kill ten rats" often makes it so I miss out on plenty of useful stories as well.

    I think my original guardian allergy came from the feeling that the faction resembles one of the factions in Aion (the Elyos) way too closely, both in looks, starting areas and even the name of their capital city. My baby warrior is level 23 now so I haven't really got that far yet, but the guardian side been quite enjoyable so far, even if more like a traditional high-fantasy mmo - and I can't quite get over the creepy Aion wibes I get in Silverwood. If I see one more ~sparkly magical purple forest~ in an MMO....
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  11. #11
    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhiimon View Post
    If I see one more ~sparkly magical purple forest~ in an MMO....
    Oh, don't worry. You always will. XD

    I just don't think it's right to shun a faction because they've been shafted with the typical "enchanted forest" starter zone. Though I will say Freemarch is boringly flat and relatively featureless -- look guys, I found a tree! It doesn't even have good vistas like its spiritual successor, Moonshade. >_>

    Well after this thread at least I am far more inclined to level my Bahmi and pay close attention to the quests. If only to abate my ravaging curiosity about the specific workings of Magitech and learning what Orphiel has to say to defend himself from the (very personal) Guardian accusations. He is a villain to them, after all, and for good reasons.
    Last edited by Morvick; 11-02-2011 at 03:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morvick View Post
    Oh, don't worry. You always will. XD

    I just don't think it's right to shun a faction because they've been shafted with the typical "enchanted forest" starter zone. Though I will say Freemarch is boringly flat and relatively featureless -- look guys, I found a tree! It doesn't even have good vistas like its spiritual successor, Moonshade. >_>

    Well after this thread at least I am far more inclined to level my Bahmi and pay close attention to the quests. If only to abate my ravaging curiosity about the specific workings of Magitech and learning what Orphiel has to say to defend himself from the (very personal) Guardian accusations. He is a villain to them, after all, and for good reasons.
    Bad news: Orphiel is only involved in Fall of Lantern Hook, and the very end of Saga of the Endless. Other than that, he sits in his tower.

    Presumably plotting, though he says he's mapping the planes.

  13. #13
    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terram View Post
    Bad news: Orphiel is only involved in Fall of Lantern Hook, and the very end of Saga of the Endless. Other than that, he sits in his tower.

    Presumably plotting, though he says he's mapping the planes.
    I've seen that he only keeps female guards around him. So is that what he calls it? "Mapping the planes"?

    *shakes fist into the air* CURSE YOU, FARWIND!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morvick View Post
    Oh, don't worry. You always will. XD

    I just don't think it's right to shun a faction because they've been shafted with the typical "enchanted forest" starter zone. Though I will say Freemarch is boringly flat and relatively featureless -- look guys, I found a tree! It doesn't even have good vistas like its spiritual successor, Moonshade. >_>
    The defiant starting zone is really flat an dull, maybe thats why i got a bit bored with it. Reminds me of where i live, (wyoming) which is also really flat an dull. The mobs also really reminded me of fighting chaos in warhammer online. But i think the thing that annoyed me the most was how tightly packed the mobs were, i couldnt move ten feet with out having to cut a swath through the swarm.

    As for thinkin they were talkin about Asha Catari, i must have never caught the name. But either way you do still see her corpse in the guardiant starting area which is pretty neat. I was kind of hoping for a note or something to fill in a lil story on their end though. Something to explain why she is dead right there.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macinley1 View Post
    The defiant starting zone is really flat an dull, maybe thats why i got a bit bored with it. Reminds me of where i live, (wyoming) which is also really flat an dull. The mobs also really reminded me of fighting chaos in warhammer online. But i think the thing that annoyed me the most was how tightly packed the mobs were, i couldnt move ten feet with out having to cut a swath through the swarm.

    As for thinkin they were talkin about Asha Catari, i must have never caught the name. But either way you do still see her corpse in the guardiant starting area which is pretty neat. I was kind of hoping for a note or something to fill in a lil story on their end though. Something to explain why she is dead right there.
    There is. Just later on. I mean, in the very starting zone you can assume that the rift/armies of Death killed her, but there's more info on what happened to her as you quest though Telara.

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