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Thread: Loyal guardian ascended in lore?

  1. #1
    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Default Loyal guardian ascended in lore?

    Just an idle question:

    Do we know for sure of any Guardian ascended NPCs who do not turn on the Vigil by the Defiant starting area?

    I am thinking this whole "not for their faith, but for their might" strategy is sucking badly. (These people shoulda talked to the guy in the Captain America movie with the super soldier serum.)
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    Sword of Telara
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    Pretty sure Cyril isn't there.

    Neither is Borrin.

    Though they are almost assuredly dead, and there is the whole question as to whether or not the Guardians in Terminus are actually the same Guardians in present-Telara, and not one of those hugely fanatic versions alluded to in artifact sets.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Um, most of them. Only Jebiah (not Ascended), Shyla, Kain, Alsbeth are there. We don't know about the others.

    And well, this is a future created from a history where the Guardians successfully reached and wrecked Meridian. Many ripples could have formed from that, resulting in the Guardians becoming corrupted and betrayed, etc. I mean, just look at Alsbeth's plans:

    -take over Iron Tomb and Freemarch, raise an army
    -take over Gloamwood starting with the Hag's actions, raise an army
    -take over Scarlet Gorge and Foul Cascade, raise a gnar army
    -take over Scarwood Reach and defeat the Aelfwar at King's Breach, stop the Aelfwar (and second major and up-and-coming cultist faction during the launch game zone's proceedings) from reaching Stillmoor
    -succeed in Stillmoor and open a death rift of huge proportions
    -assist the Abyssal in opening Hammerknell and unleash the Death horrors of it over the Moonshade Highlands, same with the fae and dwarves at Runic Descent
    -open the way to the River of Souls and retrieve any or all of the fallen that have died at the hands of the Ascended, and smash their way to Sanctum

    Sure the Guardians may have stopped some or even most of these plans, but it still would have likely defeated them bit by bit (not even counting possible betrayal), until Sanctum and Telara finally falls, and the remains of the faction rush after the Defiant survivors, to exact revenge on them in Terminus.

    In the long view, the Guardians NEED the Defiants to cover the lands and deeds that they they themselves cannot cover and save. The Defiants NEED the Guardians to cover the lands and deeds they they can save, in order for them to have the 'space' (time and land) to do their experiments on magitech.

    A world without the Defiants, leads to Terminus. A world without the Guardians... *shudder*.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    There are only 3 fallen Guardian Ascended in the Defaint starting area. You have to remember that alot more of the notable figures on the Guardians are Ascended rather than normal. I beleive even Jebiah is though Id have to go back the Guardian starting area to be sure since thats the only place I know he mentions his past.

    Just a short list of the non fallen:
    - Cyril
    - Borrin
    - Abbottess Katia (though its not outright stated, the fact shes still around after blowing herself up in Scarwood suggests she has been Ascended)
    - Marshal Oakwood
    - Tam Daggerborne
    - Rhamm Dragonbane
    - The former abyssal fellow whos name escapes me. Hes the quest giver in the Water Saga for the Guardians.
    - Sir Martyn of the 12th
    - The Seer of the Vigil whos name also escapes me at the moment.

    There are a few more I can think of but I cant remember their names or titles. Ones a questgiver in IPP.

    Either way we actually have very few details in the end on what actually happened between the fall of Meridian and Terminus. The one of the prophecies from Omen Sight suggests it was Despair at lossing everything that caused Shyla to fall. Death from a thousand cuts I think she called it.

    As for a world without the Guardians, the world wouldnt have gotten past the Shade since it was the Guardians that stopped Andraxis.:P More seriously neither faction realises how much the other has actually contributed to stopping the Dragon Cults even when they have been working near each other.

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    As the others have said, only three Guardians have been seen by anyone to go full-on Regulos' team: Shyla the Fallen in Terminus, Alsbeth the Discordant, and Kain the Fallen stretching from Scarwood to Stilmoor. Brother Jebiah is just angrily taking out his frustrations and inconsolable sadness, in normal zealous fashion, against the enemy he's seen from the beginning: the Defiants. Keep in mind that the Guardians regularly refer to Orphiel as "that villain", and they don't think much better of his immediate subordinates.

    Just as Terminus gives no information at all about Orphiel, neither does it reveal the fates of the Tribunal, Cyril, Borrin, Katia, the Seer of Sanctum, or any of the other major Guardian figureheads.
    Last edited by Morvick; 11-01-2011 at 05:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morvick View Post
    As the others have said, only three Guardians have been seen by anyone to go full-on Regulos' team: Shyla the Fallen in Terminus, Alsbeth the Discordant, and Kain the Fallen stretching from Scarwood to Stilmoor. Brother Jebiah is just angrily taking out his frustrations and inconsolable sadness, in normal zealous fashion, against the enemy he's seen from the beginning: the Defiants. Keep in mind that the Guardians regularly refer to Orphiel as "that villain", and they don't think much better of his immediate subordinates.

    Just as Terminus gives no information at all about Orphiel, neither does it reveal the fates of the Tribunal, Cyril, Borrin, Katia, the Seer of Sanctum, or any of the other major Guardian figureheads.
    I think Jebiah gets a worse rap than he deserves. Hes certianly an ornery and grumpy dwarf and likes to go on about purging but looking at his actions and history hes more than just a zealot.

    Most notably is that when Jebiah actually does get to purging he's actually both extremely good at finding corruption and acturate at targeting the sources. The only case I can think of someone getting caught up in one of Jebiah's purges who wasnt a dragon cultist or villian is the few who get caught up in the purging of Gloamwood and even then he show regret that there was no way to avoid it.

    He also sends you on a few quests to sancify the dead or free cursed souls, which is an interesting side of him considering his family was locked way in Hammerknell when the shade happened.

  7. #7
    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
    I think Jebiah gets a worse rap than he deserves. Hes certianly an ornery and grumpy dwarf and likes to go on about purging but looking at his actions and history hes more than just a zealot.

    Most notably is that when Jebiah actually does get to purging he's actually both extremely good at finding corruption and acturate at targeting the sources. The only case I can think of someone getting caught up in one of Jebiah's purges who wasnt a dragon cultist or villian is the few who get caught up in the purging of Gloamwood and even then he show regret that there was no way to avoid it.

    He also sends you on a few quests to sancify the dead or free cursed souls, which is an interesting side of him considering his family was locked way in Hammerknell when the shade happened.
    Agreed. He acts out of grief and the most grim of determinations that he must, absolutely and with finality, prevent the evils visited upon him from ever happening to anyone else. Of the Guardians who have been "burned" by arrogance and selfishness, he is possibly the most damaged and, arguably, the most resolved to atone for those terrible personality flaws.

    His zealotry is not without reason, nor is his anger, his sadness, or his thought process. Why wait for Gloamwood to fall to the Werewolf Curse when we could kill those citizens who are infected NOW and spare as many families as possible? To him, Gloamwood Pines is another Hammerknell waiting to happen -- well, pfft, over his dead body! "Burn them out, Ascended: the faithless will find their judgment!" And then, exact terrible and unrelenting revenge upon the Hag, as an offering to the honored dead.

    He's a scary little man, but one who makes sense if you care to get to know him.
    Last edited by Morvick; 11-01-2011 at 10:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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    I think Jebiah would have made a far better guardian rep for Hammerknell. He was a native and it may have offered a chance to get to know the angry little man better. Borrin is great but for Jebiah it would have been personal.

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    Plane Walker Xerokine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
    I think Jebiah would have made a far better guardian rep for Hammerknell. He was a native and it may have offered a chance to get to know the angry little man better. Borrin is great but for Jebiah it would have been personal.
    I expect Jebiah would have forbidden them to use the rune cannons to bash down Hammerknell's gate. I also doubt he would've worked alongside The Faceless Man - who is both a Defiant heretic and a former Abyssal cultist. Rather than fighting the Abyssal, we probably would've had Jebiah fighting The Faceless Man - and I really do not see Jebiah winning that fight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerokine View Post
    I expect Jebiah would have forbidden them to use the rune cannons to bash down Hammerknell's gate. I also doubt he would've worked alongside The Faceless Man - who is both a Defiant heretic and a former Abyssal cultist. Rather than fighting the Abyssal, we probably would've had Jebiah fighting The Faceless Man - and I really do not see Jebiah winning that fight.
    Im not too sure about that. Jebiah isnt a fool to start a fight at a time like that. There are things in game which make the Guardian stance somewhat difficult to pin down. For example the stuff the Dragonslayers are using at the Flatyard seems very much like magitech. The Guardians however disapprove and try to convince the Dragonslayers of their folly but dont actually take the sword to the dragonslayers. Maybe its the 'Crusade is always the final option to be used' thing.

    Of course without a clear indication its not possible to be sure if that actually what the Dragonslayers are using.

    Jebiah himself says he respects what they are trying to do but sees it as folly how they are trying to do it. Hes less of a raving fanatic than most people think.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
    Im not too sure about that. Jebiah isnt a fool to start a fight at a time like that. There are things in game which make the Guardian stance somewhat difficult to pin down. For example the stuff the Dragonslayers are using at the Flatyard seems very much like magitech. The Guardians however disapprove and try to convince the Dragonslayers of their folly but dont actually take the sword to the dragonslayers. Maybe its the 'Crusade is always the final option to be used' thing.

    Of course without a clear indication its not possible to be sure if that actually what the Dragonslayers are using.

    Jebiah himself says he respects what they are trying to do but sees it as folly how they are trying to do it. Hes less of a raving fanatic than most people think.
    So true. Basically, Jebiah is 'ok' with you, but once you ARE an enemy, you are ENEMY #1.

    Right now he has that saved exclusively for the 6 planar cults and the Defiants (who he sees and just the 7th cult lol). Everyone else, he would just strongly disapprove of what they are doing, that's all.

    He needs a questline to show him basically as an old koot that is just eccentric, until someone breaks into his property and his insane violence gets to shine. Just as the Defiants have the Unseen, the Guardians have Jebiah scouring the land.. a necessary tool.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    So true. Basically, Jebiah is 'ok' with you, but once you ARE an enemy, you are ENEMY #1.

    Right now he has that saved exclusively for the 6 planar cults and the Defiants (who he sees and just the 7th cult lol). Everyone else, he would just strongly disapprove of what they are doing, that's all.

    He needs a questline to show him basically as an old koot that is just eccentric, until someone breaks into his property and his insane violence gets to shine. Just as the Defiants have the Unseen, the Guardians have Jebiah scouring the land.. a necessary tool.
    This is why I think it would have been good to see Jebiah involved in Hammerknell. In Jebiah's artifact collection one of the items stuck out for me. Jebiah's sister's doll. Jebiah marched out of Hammerknell to fight back the Endless Court and Regulos and protect the people he ministered to and his family. When the shade happened the doors were sealed trapping the anyone still inside with the released nightmares. Jebiah's sister was almost certainly in there. Most of the Dwarven women of Hammerknell were.

    It makes Jebiah's role and purpose really personal for his character. He's out to protect people from the horrors that can be unleashed from planar sources. This is also probably why he has a huge gripe with the Defiants. They arent just heretics. They were directly involved, even unknowingly, in the damnation of his people, his family and much of Telara and probably from where he is sitting they dont even seemed to have learned from their mistake.

    (Note the previous paragraph is a attempted to structure my impression of Jebiah's world view not my personal view.)

    Its this background and how Jebiah deals with the world that reallly make his character much deeper than just a raving zealot scouring away unbelievers.

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