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Thread: Are the ascended biologically alive?

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    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Default Are the ascended biologically alive?

    Simple question, really. Are the Ascended alive? Do they bleed? Do they eat? Can they reproduce? Is the answer the same for guardian and defiant ascended?
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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Certainly yes to the Guardian Ascended (the body is just patched up and infused with holy power), and I am imagining since the Defiants replicated Ascension, that they did so in a manner where the body ("sourcestone matrix") has blood, organs, reproductive capabilities, etc. You can still decapitate, impale, starve, exsanguinate, burn, or drown and Ascended. They'll still die like any mortal. But they just don't stay dead for terribly long.

    It's an interesting point about the reproduction, though. Ascended can purportedly live for thousands of years, maybe forever (not sure if that's due to the resurrection -- and subsequent resetting of age -- or by the nature of their life), so if they got jiggy with it on a normal schedule, they could quickly and easily amass a small country of direct descendants. Especially if they chose a fellow Ascended as a mate. Talk about keeping the bloodline pure! (I do not think their children would be Ascended -- that's a soul thing, not a bloodline thing)
    Last edited by Morvick; 10-27-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Simple question, really. Are the Ascended alive? Do they bleed? Do they eat? Can they reproduce? Is the answer the same for guardian and defiant ascended?
    -yes, they are alive. At least even the Defiant Ascended can be determined as 'reincarnated biological golems', the golem part being that fact that they are constructed from amounts of sourcestone (I think).

    -yes, they bleed. Blood might be 'special', but still blood.

    -yes, they eat and drink. Whether they require it is unknown.

    -unknown about reproduction. Might find out at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    -yes, they are alive. At least even the Defiant Ascended can be determined as 'reincarnated biological golems', the golem part being that fact that they are constructed from amounts of sourcestone (I think).

    -yes, they bleed. Blood might be 'special', but still blood.

    -yes, they eat and drink. Whether they require it is unknown.

    -unknown about reproduction. Might find out at some point.
    Interestingly, I remember reading a ingame book at Terminus I think that said the process to Ascend someone the Defiant way required a piece of the original body. Ill have to go look for that book to conferm this at some point. By that logic it means Ascended are likely almost some form of powered up clone body (with the original soul).

    I dont think yet we really know everything there is to know about Ascended. I keep wondering if their are drawbacks we dont know about.

    Interesting side note. A players corpse lists the corpse as a Planar corpse. That suggests that Ascended are now planar beings.
    Last edited by Lutinz; 10-27-2011 at 11:05 PM.

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    aux
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    I've not seen any blood anywhere. So I don't think they bleed.
    Eating is done for buffs only.
    And they can't reproduce... I haven't seen any children anywhere in Telara.

    I don't think any of this counts as 'alive'.
    I'm so BORED

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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    I've not seen any blood anywhere. So I don't think they bleed.
    Eating is done for buffs only.
    And they can't reproduce... I haven't seen any children anywhere in Telara.

    I don't think any of this counts as 'alive'.
    I was bleeding when they cut out my kidney. The debuff said so.

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    Plane Walker Xerokine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
    Interestingly, I remember reading a ingame book at Terminus I think that said the process to Ascend someone the Defiant way required a piece of the original body. Ill have to go look for that book to conferm this at some point. By that logic it means Ascended are likely almost some form of powered up clone body (with the original soul).
    Close. They just require a piece of bone. It can be anyone's bone, though. The sourcestone 'matrix' appears to be 'programmed' by the soul put into it; put the soul of Bob into the matrix, and it turns into Bob.

    Look at the description of Asha's revival in Orphiel's biography, though; "She formed around the sourcestone frame: bone, then meat, then skin, and then these bright tattoos blazed to life on her dusky flesh. I knew that girl. Asha Catari, she was. She sat up and stared at Orphiel, who just laughed and laughed and laughed." So, at least superficially, they look like a biologically normal body.
    "I get up early. And I don't go to bed until I've made some very poor decisions."

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    RIFT Community Ambassador Morvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    I've not seen any blood anywhere. So I don't think they bleed.
    Eating is done for buffs only.
    And they can't reproduce... I haven't seen any children anywhere in Telara.

    I don't think any of this counts as 'alive'.
    There are bleeding effects on your character. No projected textures (that'd be a LOT of blood), but it is there. Plus, all those "Bleed" effects go nicely with Burn and Electrified effects.

    I am curious though... is an Ascended ever hungry? Thirsty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

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    My characters drink/consume potions to help replenish their wisdom or to heal the body, what these potions are made of could be considered food to the ascended?
    Last edited by Mythue; 10-28-2011 at 08:48 AM.

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    Telaran Tyeomorus's Avatar
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    Ascended are negative entropy machines that:

    1. Maintain homeostasis.
    2. Are organized systems of cells.
    3. Engage in metabolic functions that transform energy in one form into energy that can be used to maintain homeostasis and do other live-y things.
    4. Are probably capable of growth, even though it seems like all Ascended are already grown adults.
    5. Are capable of adapting to their environments.
    6. Respond to stimuli.
    7. Are probably capable of reproducing unless something in the Ascension process sterilized them (say, a mistake with the machines for Defiant).

    So, yeah, they're alive by any definition I can think of. They probably eat food to preserve their bodies' order and we just don't see it because, you now, no one wants to include "having to eat, ****, sleep" in their games. They respond to the outside world. They're just modified versions of regular non-Ascended life.

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    Ascendant Inixia's Avatar
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    I find the biology definition of "life" to be off, and by saying biology I should point out that its actually not in the realm of science but more of linguistics since it really has nothing to do with objective observations of the world around us and more to do with syntax. The reproduction requirement especially, Idk it ends up cutting off a lot of organisms that under a general interpretation of the word would be considered "alive." I think its clear though from the general interpretation that the Ascended are alive.
    Last edited by Inixia; 10-28-2011 at 10:20 AM.

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    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    I guess by "alive" I meant more "do they have cells and metabolisms like other life forms"? And I really don't know. I do think it's a nice catch that they form "planar" corpses, not "humanoid" corpses.

    Hmm. Is that consistent with the types of other things? The addon API exposes the tags now, we could see whether, e.g., Asha and Kira are shown as Planar, because we know they're both ascended.
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    Plane Walker Xerokine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    I guess by "alive" I meant more "do they have cells and metabolisms like other life forms"? And I really don't know. I do think it's a nice catch that they form "planar" corpses, not "humanoid" corpses.

    Hmm. Is that consistent with the types of other things? The addon API exposes the tags now, we could see whether, e.g., Asha and Kira are shown as Planar, because we know they're both ascended.
    Except that planar beings probably have cells and metabolize like other life forms. Especially since we know that certain planespawn can even breed with Telaran humans; take the Bahmi, for example.

    Given that sourcestone can basically transform into anything, similar to how stem cells can become any type of cells, I would say that the Defiant Ascension process is basically using a bone to tell the sourcestone it's becoming 'flesh', and the soul to program in exactly what that flesh looks like. So Reborn Asha would be physiologically identical to Original Asha. Except her cells would be quite a bit younger, since she's now biologically two years old.
    "I get up early. And I don't go to bed until I've made some very poor decisions."

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    Telaran Tyeomorus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inixia View Post
    I find the biology definition of "life" to be off, and by saying biology I should point out that its actually not in the realm of science but more of linguistics since it really has nothing to do with objective observations of the world around us and more to do with syntax. The reproduction requirement especially, Idk it ends up cutting off a lot of organisms that under a general interpretation of the word would be considered "alive." I think its clear though from the general interpretation that the Ascended are alive.
    I shoulda used the word "description" not definition, my bad. I don't think we have a definition of life. We only have descriptions.

    The description is also for a whole species, not necessarily individuals. So, for example, a gelded horse isn't considered not alive because he can't reproduce since his whole species is capable of reproduction (roughly).

    I can't think of any organism that's not included in the above description except, maybe, viruses, but they're a different argument.

    And, Anteaus, most of the cells in your body are far younger than two years old, unless you're talking about the kind of damage that goes on in your genetic code through division of cells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerokine View Post
    Except that planar beings probably have cells and metabolize like other life forms. Especially since we know that certain planespawn can even breed with Telaran humans; take the Bahmi, for example.

    Given that sourcestone can basically transform into anything, similar to how stem cells can become any type of cells, I would say that the Defiant Ascension process is basically using a bone to tell the sourcestone it's becoming 'flesh', and the soul to program in exactly what that flesh looks like. So Reborn Asha would be physiologically identical to Original Asha. Except her cells would be quite a bit younger, since she's now biologically two years old.
    So that's why Zareph vanished... it wasn't the Endless Court, it was NBC.

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