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Thread: Vigil As One? Or, Alliance of Gods?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Hawkeyez's Avatar
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    Default Vigil As One? Or, Alliance of Gods?

    I've seen, here in the forums, and in-game, folks argue that the Vigil was a merging of beings into One: the Vigil. I don't follow this reasoning, and would like to hear arguments for and against. From my side of the aisle, I see the Vigil as an alliance of the gods who now have to work in concert from beyond the Ward. The reason they talk to Starhearth as their "spokeswoman" on Telara, and few others directly; is, in my mind, because there are few Telarans who can communicate directly with them beyond the power of the Ward. There are, after all, still Abbots and Cardinals of each denomination in existence.

    People who argue that this combination of the gods into the Vigil means that there is now a monolithic hierarchy in spiritual matters are, imo, full of fallacy. I've even heard some argue that this "merging" and dedication of the races by various spiritual "leaders" (e.g. Starhearth) means that temporal authority has become monolithic and that there are no borders of the ancient lands anymore. Of course, the only ones I've heard that argument from are Mathosians, whose homeland was/is overrun by the Shade and Rifts. So, what are your points-of-view and arguments?

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple GothWulfe's Avatar
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    Well, the confusion seems to really boil down to semantics...the description of the Vigil as a whole reads

    "The Vigil are a group of five gods who created the world of Telara. They participated in the Blood Storm Wars by fighting alongside Telara's inhabitants to defeat the Blood Storm. Afterward, they helped create the Ward to defend Telara from the planes by keeping the Blood Storm at bay.[1]


    Since that time, despite the weakening of the Ward and the threat of Regulos' return, the Vigil has been silent. The Guardians are confident that the Vigil will return again to help drive back those forces which seek to destroy Telara.[2]
    "

    Making it seem as if it is simply an alliance of the "big five", so to speak. However each individual gods description seems to give a different impression...

    "Bahralt was the patron of the dwarven race before the gods joined together as the Vigil..."
    "Mariel-Taun was the matron of lovers, healers, and the arts. "
    "Before the Vigil, she was the patron of the High Elves with whom she shared a special bond."
    "Before the Vigil, Thedeor was the patron of the Mathosian people, who taught them courage and the arts of war."
    "Thontic was the patron of merchants, sailors and explorers."


    Notice the use of the key word "was". The is followed by "Now as part of the Vigil..." or a similar phrase, thus leading me to believe that "merged god" theory is the correct one as it is really the only explanation as to why each god would have underwent a significant personality change, even going so far as to "give up" the races/people that they had been patrons of since the beginning.

    Personally, my opinion is that once they formed the Vigil, the five became more like the christian trinity, different "aspects" of a single "overgod", so to speak.

    On a side note, this could also explain why the Vigil is strangely silent and does nothing in the Defiant future. As separate gods, they each had a close tie with certain people of Telara, yet after joining into the Vigil, they seem to have given this up, which could very well have lead to a "Well, we'll just have to start over..." attitude. Not saying they don't care, simply that a certain pragmatism may have infused them as a whole, after all, sometimes it's easier to simply start over then it is to try to fix something that is messed up.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Halman's Avatar
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    They are a group of separate entities.

    Making it seem as if it is simply an alliance of the "big five", so to speak. However each individual gods description seems to give a different impression...
    It means that they broadened their patronage after banding together. If before Bahralt only really cared for dwarves, now he blesses every guardian (or, well, non-defiant, non-cultist) crafter, artisan, arthitect and so on. The same goes for the others.

    The (former) Druid quest giver in Sanctum elaborates a bit on these matters. You must have heard if you play guardian.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    It's an alliance. Tavril was for the elves and they fought for her with their lives, but with the Blood Storm, she became a god for all of the Vigil-worshipping peoples of Telara. Ex: The dwarves may focus on Bahralt still, but they also generally worship Tavril in their works to rebuild Telara (see the Order of Life Serene with dwarves in it!).

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    Plane Walker
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    "means that temporal authority has become monolithic and that there are no borders of the ancient lands anymore"

    what does this mean? especially the part that there are no borders of the ancient lands? all borders are open?

  6. #6
    Telaran Dustfinger's Avatar
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    Could go either way imho. I think would all amounts to the same thing. It just depends on what point of view you start from but it'd be the same thing in the end.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Hawkeyez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythue View Post
    "means that temporal authority has become monolithic and that there are no borders of the ancient lands anymore"

    what does this mean? especially the part that there are no borders of the ancient lands? all borders are open?
    It's an American colloquialism, meaning their are no recognized borders (in this case, racial homelands) defining differing responsibilities. Some folks act as if the "Vigil" controls all spiritually and politically. (i.e.) Silverwood is no longer the Elves ancient land to claim and protect, Hammerknell is not an exclusively Dwarven (before the fall) political entity who administers that area. I hope that clears up my meaning for you.

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    Plane Walker
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    [B"]It's an American colloquialism, meaning their are no recognized borders (in this case, racial homelands) defining differing responsibilities. Some folks act as if the "Vigil" controls all spiritually and politically. (i.e.) Silverwood is no longer the Elves ancient land to claim and protect, Hammerknell is not an exclusively Dwarven (before the fall) political entity who administers that area. I hope that clears up my meaning for you." [/B]

    yes, thank you, or I think so If the Vigil were the ones who created Telara, I can see this, since they are the creators, and I guess it just depends on whether they gave 'do what you will, we will not interfere' type of thing to the ones who live on Telara now, and I wonder what this New Covenant is, that was made between the Ascended Elves and the Vigil.

    Also, I have read that there might be 'other gods' more powerful than the Vigil, and because of this and then not being able to find anything about the Vigil creating Telara on Trion's main site if this has now become rumor only. Or is it the 'other gods' that are the rumor.

    So confused!

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    Plane Walker
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    words like Ascendants, Descendants and Transcendents seem like a trinity to me in this game and then there are items that are identified as Sovereign.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Hawkeyez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythue View Post
    [B"]It's an American colloquialism, meaning their are no recognized borders (in this case, racial homelands) defining differing responsibilities. Some folks act as if the "Vigil" controls all spiritually and politically. (i.e.) Silverwood is no longer the Elves ancient land to claim and protect, Hammerknell is not an exclusively Dwarven (before the fall) political entity who administers that area. I hope that clears up my meaning for you." [/B]

    yes, thank you, or I think so If the Vigil were the ones who created Telara, I can see this, since they are the creators, and I guess it just depends on whether they gave 'do what you will, we will not interfere' type of thing to the ones who live on Telara now, and I wonder what this New Covenant is, that was made between the Ascended Elves and the Vigil.

    Also, I have read that there might be 'other gods' more powerful than the Vigil, and because of this and then not being able to find anything about the Vigil creating Telara on Trion's main site if this has now become rumor only. Or is it the 'other gods' that are the rumor.

    So confused!
    It is confusing, that's why there's debate on the issue. IMO, there is a complete individuality among the gods, they've simply allied to fight this attempt at destroying "their" creation. The individual altars, and sites of worship are still functional throughout the Guardian side. The altars in Sanctum regularly rotate around the city, and remain functional and specific to each deity. The cardinals, abbots, abbesses, etc, are still representative of the separate gods. To argue that they "have become one," is simply a description (to me) of their alliance and single-minded purpose of will in fighting the Bloodstorm.

    Then, the issue of temporal authority. Nations, for that is what the Elves, Dwarves, and Mathosians are; are allied in this fight: same as the gods. This does NOT mean the temporal powers have subsumed their authority and lands to the spiritual leaders of the differing races. Even IRL, when their have been "jihads" or "crusades," spiritual authorities have rarely been able to usurp temporal powers in any lasting manner: influence, yes; bully, yes; threaten, yes. But, even the Papal States of our world's history worked through local authorities more often than directly governed.

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