+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Defiant body and soul matching

  1. #1
    Ascendant Tolmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,438

    Default Defiant body and soul matching

    This is a question that has had me curious for a while. I primarily played Guardian, so I only had a chance to see maybe the first 15 levels or so of the defiant... so I'm hoping someone else may have noticed something I didn't or there was a hint to this in later levels.

    Do the defiant match a soul the bring back from the dead to the proper body, or is it just any ol' soul with any ol' body? Example: when an ascended is resurrected in the starting area as a Bahmi... was the soul that is in that body definitely a bahmi beforehand, or did they stick whatever soul they got into the first available body, meaning you could have a defiant-friendly dwarf or an eth in the Bahmi body? >_>
    Rift: 50 Rogue Tank, Two 50 Cleric tanks, and a 50 Mage

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,160

    Default

    The body is a sourcestone duplicate of the soul's original.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Tolmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunsocks View Post
    The body is a sourcestone duplicate of the soul's original.
    That's what I was thinking but I had heard conflicting things on /4 from my server (Faeblight). Their general consensus there was that the souls were of indeterminate origin and were simply strong + defiant friendly. They would get shoved into the new body and go from there. Since that conflicted a little with what I had originally thought, I figured i would come here to get opinions from a larger base of people!
    Rift: 50 Rogue Tank, Two 50 Cleric tanks, and a 50 Mage

  4. #4
    Plane Touched Arynite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    234

    Default

    Iirc, in the first few rooms of the Defiant starter area, you see some technicians reviewing potential souls for ascension, and they have little hologram models for these souls. I suppose these could be interpreted as the "blueprints" used in ascension, but there's not much explanation where these models come from. Is this what the body looked like before they died? Their prime? Their own self image?

    On the Guardian side, ascended are pretty much brought back after their moment of death in the Shade. The Defiant, however, come from a broader time period. In theory, not everyone died in some tragic accident. You could potentially have a soul you want to ascend who lived a long fulfilling life, gained lots of wisdom and experience, and then died of old age. Would you bring them back as-is at their moment of death, or give them a younger body? We've got some older looking face options in the character creation screen, but the general body shape is always well-toned and fit.

    My take on this is that since Defiant ascended are made using sourcestone, there's a little room for modification and variation from the mortal's original appearance. The Defiant would want their new weapons to be as strong as possible, and would probably try to avoid crafting bodies with missing limbs, birth defects, or anything else that might hamper an ascended's ability to fight.

    Would they go so far as to completely mismatch a body and soul? Probably not. Most souls probably function best in a body close to their original form. Furthermore, bringing someone back as a different race might be offensive to some cultures. I imagine the Bahmi, whose culture has a strong reverence for ancestors and pride in their Shalastiri heritage would find a foreigner in a Bahmi's body to be offensive.
    Last edited by Arynite; 10-03-2011 at 11:58 AM.
    Eshlon@Greybriar

  5. #5
    Ascendant Tolmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynite View Post
    Iirc, in the first few rooms of the Defiant starter area, you see some technicians reviewing potential souls for ascension, and they have little hologram models for these souls. I suppose these could be interpreted as the "blueprints" used in ascension, but there's not much explanation where these models come from. Is this what the body looked like before they died? Their prime? Their own self image?

    On the Guardian side, ascended are pretty much brought back after their moment of death in the Shade. The Defiant, however, come from a broader time period. In theory, not everyone died in some tragic accident. You could potentially have a soul you want to ascend who lived a long fulfilling life, gained lots of wisdom and experience, and then died of old age. Would you bring them back as-is at their moment of death, or give them a younger body? We've got some older looking face options in the character creation screen, but the general body shape is always well-toned and fit.

    My take on this is that since Defiant ascended are made using sourcestone, there's a little room for modification and variation from the mortal's original appearance. The Defiant would want their new weapons to be as strong as possible, and would probably try to avoid crafting bodies with missing limbs, birth defects, or anything else that might hamper an ascended's ability to fight.

    Would they go so far as to completely mismatch a body and soul? Probably not. Most souls probably function best in a body close to their original form. Furthermore, bringing someone back as a different race might be offensive to some cultures. I imagine the Bahmi, whose culture has a strong reverence for ancestors and pride in their Shalastiri heritage would find a foreigner in a Bahmi's body to be offensive.
    What originally sparked this question was actually that hologram you spoke of. While I was watching them sift through souls determining who they should pick up, I notice them look at a dwarf! Of course, they turned him down because he was too sympathetic to the guardian cause, but it made me wonder... then other times they alluded to the original soul not being able to remember much of their past (who they were, where they came from, etc), which also got me wondering. >_>
    Rift: 50 Rogue Tank, Two 50 Cleric tanks, and a 50 Mage

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Xerokine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Basically, when a machineborn Ascended is created, the technicians carve a humanoid form out of Sourcestone and insert a bone (this can be anyone's bone, technically, but since it's incorperated into the final product, it's best to use a small bone so it doesn't cause issues later on).

    When a soul is placed into the carved body, that soul changes the Sourcestone into a duplicate of what the person looked like when they were alive. So it's impossible for a dwarf soul to be a Bahmi body, for example, because a dwarf soul would turn the sourcestone into a dwarf body.
    "I get up early. And I don't go to bed until I've made some very poor decisions."

    *Antaeus, Defiant Kelari - Faeblight RP-PvE
    Now available: Telara, as seen through screenshots of varying quality.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    447

    Default

    what I still cannot seem to see, is how a machineborn body/form is different from everything that was created originally, except for this piece of bone that is needed, the form/body is from sourcestone and even this piece of bone would have been from sourcestone too. How did the Vigil create forms when Telara was created, wasn't it from sourcestone as well, and where did the souls come from when they did.
    Last edited by Mythue; 10-03-2011 at 05:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Xerokine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mythue View Post
    what I still cannot seem to see, is how a machineborn body/form is different from everything that was created originally, except for this piece of bone that is needed, the form/body is from sourcestone and even this piece of bone would have been from sourcestone too. How did the Vigil create forms when Telara was created, wasn't it from sourcestone as well, and where did the souls come from when they did.
    Only material objects were created, originally, from Sourcestone. So all the dirt, the water in the oceans, the air in the sky; all of that was originally Sourcestone. The Vigil turned that into a planet.

    So a normal person's bone wasn't originally Sourcestone. It was bone, made from cells, etc. But the first human's bone was originally Sourcestone - but only the first ones created. After that, Sourcestone wasn't involved. Sourcestone is sort of like stem cells in a human body. They can become anything, but they can't go back to being stem cells - they're permanently nerve cells or whatever, and they create new nerve cells or whatever.

    As for where souls came from, no idea. The River of Souls passes by the Plane of Death (which is why Regulos can reach out and snag souls out of it), but it's not part of it, and we don't know where it ultimately goes or comes from.
    "I get up early. And I don't go to bed until I've made some very poor decisions."

    *Antaeus, Defiant Kelari - Faeblight RP-PvE
    Now available: Telara, as seen through screenshots of varying quality.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    7,617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerokine View Post
    Only material objects were created, originally, from Sourcestone. So all the dirt, the water in the oceans, the air in the sky; all of that was originally Sourcestone. The Vigil turned that into a planet.

    So a normal person's bone wasn't originally Sourcestone. It was bone, made from cells, etc. But the first human's bone was originally Sourcestone - but only the first ones created. After that, Sourcestone wasn't involved. Sourcestone is sort of like stem cells in a human body. They can become anything, but they can't go back to being stem cells - they're permanently nerve cells or whatever, and they create new nerve cells or whatever.

    As for where souls came from, no idea. The River of Souls passes by the Plane of Death (which is why Regulos can reach out and snag souls out of it), but it's not part of it, and we don't know where it ultimately goes or comes from.
    Maybe it was created by the Vigil, as a route of passage for the souls of Telara?

    Sorry if I was wrong, but I'm just wondering if that was a good idea

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Xerokine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    Maybe it was created by the Vigil, as a route of passage for the souls of Telara?

    Sorry if I was wrong, but I'm just wondering if that was a good idea
    I have no idea if you're right or wrong. As far as I'm aware, we don't have any information on the origin of the River of Souls, nor do we know where souls come from or where they go. It's likely to be something that predates the Vigil, though, as the Planes were populated long before Telara even existed.
    "I get up early. And I don't go to bed until I've made some very poor decisions."

    *Antaeus, Defiant Kelari - Faeblight RP-PvE
    Now available: Telara, as seen through screenshots of varying quality.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts