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Thread: So... are we(the awesome Defiants) making our own Ascended now in the present?

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    Rift Disciple
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    Default So... are we(the awesome Defiants) making our own Ascended now in the present?


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    Ascendant Sinndel's Avatar
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    Basically, you are the only defiant ever made at terminus, and were sent back. All other defiant ascended were made in the present. You have to ignore the existance of every other player who also came from Terminus, they don't exist.
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    I thought that all Defiant Ascended come from alternate timelines. Like, Failsafe device activated - blablabla stuff happens, many timelines diverge - in some timelines Defiants succeed in making Ascended and send them back to Failsafe activation - many, many Ascended from endless future timelines arrive at Failsafe - no need to create own Ascended, because Ascended from alternate timelines continue to arrive...
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    in this timeline, I gathered that Sylver Valis was working on making ascended without returning souls. He says he wants to create life not merely return life from death.

    When he says this, in game, I always feel like mentioning to him that the creation of life has always been in existence, but then I think, maybe he is looking at the creation of life without sourcestone?

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndel View Post
    Basically, you are the only defiant ever made at terminus, and were sent back. All other defiant ascended were made in the present. You have to ignore the existance of every other player who also came from Terminus, they don't exist.
    I never figured this at all. I thought we ALL came through the Failsafe, from a general 'Terminus' timeline (perhaps multiple ones for each of us, because there can technically be infinite Terminus timelines that are the same) and the failsafe in this timeline 'buffers' us through. Basically, we're all from a failed future, but the one you play as is always the 'first' and the one that 'matters'. The other Ascended are also from Terminus, but 'another' one, and they came after you one by one. The Ark of the Ascended then becomes purposed not just for research, but to be protected from Guardians so that the Defiant can produce nearly infinite Ascended.

    The 'early prototypes' Sylver mentions are just his experiments he's trying to do in the lore story, and have nothing to do with creating Ascended.

    Though of course, Sylver IS clearly researching Ascension and aims to make his own in the present day, knowing that his future self would be able to. And Orphiel is trying to unlock the powers of Ascension as well....

    Anyway, as I was getting at - the failsafe and method of Ascension stuff is just like the rest of the questing in the game - 'you' did it all, but the other Ascended around you also did mighty, though more vague, deeds. As a Guardian, you killed the Shade of Regulos and stopped the end of Telara, but the other Ascended (no matter what the other players did as they played the game) 'were around as well' doing mighty deeds, just not quite as mighty as you ;)

    As a Defiant Ascended, you did all that happened in Terminus, but other Ascended were with you, and many more came over time through the failsafe, ALSO from Terminus. Basically the lore tells you that YOU are the important one, and screw the rest, but 'just so you know, the other player characters did mighty stuff too, just not what you did, tee hee'.

    In a party fighting a boss, YOU are the mighty one that has done all the cool stuff beforehand, but the other players are 'just' mighty Ascended that followed in your general direction. The came through the failsafe too, they fought Jakub and saved Freemarch, they killed Alsbeth in the River of Souls, BUT none of them, as the lore assumes, did it ever as 'directly' as you did.

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    Ascendant Sinndel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreiri View Post
    I thought that all Defiant Ascended come from alternate timelines. Like, Failsafe device activated - blablabla stuff happens, many timelines diverge - in some timelines Defiants succeed in making Ascended and send them back to Failsafe activation - many, many Ascended from endless future timelines arrive at Failsafe - no need to create own Ascended, because Ascended from alternate timelines continue to arrive...
    There's absolutely nothing in the lore that would support that theory. In fact there's something to contradict it, when Asha Catari tells you about how powering up the failsafe will drain their power and expose them to regulos. She says something along the lines of "should you be successful, none of this will happen". Meaning there is only one timeline, and any alterations to the past, erase or re-write the future. In addition, there's an NPC standing on the hill just before you reach the failsafe, who gives you a formulae to take to the past. When you get to the past (present) you give that formulae to a team who literally just discovered the "Ark of the ascended". This is what is used to create the rest of the defiant ascended.
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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythue View Post
    in this timeline, I gathered that Sylver Valis was working on making ascended without returning souls. He says he wants to create life not merely return life from death.

    When he says this, in game, I always feel like mentioning to him that the creation of life has always been in existence, but then I think, maybe he is looking at the creation of life without sourcestone?
    Yes. Technically, Defiant Ascended (and I guess Guardian Ascended, just through holy powers) are organic golems, sourcestone creations that are imbued with the power of the planes (providing autonomy) and granted a soul for personality, appearance, and skill, by either the Vigil or technomancers.
    They are not, however, as 'organic' as say a human who is birthed from a mother.

    Their original souls used to have that existence many many years ago, but no longer. Basically, they are 'demi-god clones' of what they were. As such a creation, they can both attune themselves to the planes far more than a 'full organic' person could, and also hold much more sensitivity towards other souls (allowing them to attune to those as well - in this case with the soul system, it would be putting souls of original Blood Storm heroes in you, to boost your range of skills without dedicating a lifetime of effort towards it).

    This is GREAT, and a boon to both of the factions, no doubt about that. But Sylver I believe wishes to not manipulate progression of life like Greenscale and the Aelfwar, nor create 'on par with the Guardians' Ascended as he does in a future timeline, but rather... make his own beings, even his own race/species. Basically see sourcestone constructs as the 'alpha' phase, and Ascended as the 'beta' phase... what will be the launch version? Will they be able to procreate? Be a full fledged 'life' rather than these organic golems? Will Ascended power be possible as a more widespread attribute in 'people' overall? Could this be part of a 'new' Telara that many Ascended wish to make? (far greater than the Eth Empire, and fully equipped to defeat any invasion, instead of just rebutt it like current Ascended mostly do)

    I wondered about this stuff, and if Trion wants to carry his story forward, I think they'll embrace his potential in him. He's clearly written as a character that focuses on Terminus more than any other lore character (even Asha), and he will do anything to prevent it to happen.

    “And yet this nalthema perfected the Ascension process. Will perfect. In the future. If we fail. Whatever! Not now, Anthousa!”

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    Ascendant Sinndel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    As a Defiant Ascended, you did all that happened in Terminus, but other Ascended were with you, and many more came over time through the failsafe
    No, Sylver and some of the other NPC's regretfully announce to you that you are the pinnacle of their achievements, and you are the only one. It's pretty specific. The story was written in the context of a single player game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndel View Post
    There's absolutely nothing in the lore that would support that theory. In fact there's something to contradict it, when Asha Catari tells you about how powering up the failsafe will drain their power and expose them to regulos. She says something along the lines of "should you be successful, none of this will happen". Meaning there is only one timeline, and any alterations to the past, erase or re-write the future. In addition, there's an NPC standing on the hill just before you reach the failsafe, who gives you a formulae to take to the past. When you get to the past (present) you give that formulae to a team who literally just discovered the "Ark of the ascended". This is what is used to create the rest of the defiant ascended.
    She's wrong, and has no idea.

    There is nothing wrong with the lore. It has to do with *lore perspective* (first person) As the player, all that YOU see, is all that matters. Not Asha. Not other players. If you see other Ascended players, it doesn't mean that they went through exactly what you did, but it doesn't mean that they were created in the present - it just means that they had their own story.

    Personal stories in GW2 will do the same. There is NO way that every character could have their own 'home district' in their racial city, yet the player is able to do so all the same. So does that invalidate other players' home districts? Well, in a way, yes. The lore in your own game, completely invalidates the other player' experiences. Yet they *exist* in the game world all the same.

    To you, you were through the failsafe, and others did it as well, but never did the exact actions/quests that you did.
    To others, THEY went through the failsafe, and you did as well, but you never did the exact action/quests that you did. THEY got to arrive through the failsafe 'buffer' FIRST, astonishing the Defiant scientists there, but YOU came afterward, when they were already quite used to seeing Ascended come out. To THEM, YOU never got the whole "An Ascended! They do exist!" reaction, but rather a "Good, an Ascended, get ready." reaction.



    The formula for the Ascended is NOT in play yet. Sylver and Orphiel are perhaps going to use it for the future research, but the Ascended you explore with also came from Terminus. All it means is that instead of the Guardians who are just happy with being blessed with Ascended, the Defiant will not be happy with their 'good fortune/luck' and will rather be proactive in creating their own Ascended in the present as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndel View Post
    No, Sylver and some of the other NPC's regretfully announce to you that you are the pinnacle of their achievements, and you are the only one. It's pretty specific. The story was written in the context of a single player game.
    "The story was written in the context of a single player game." YES. And as such, you are the important one. The doesn't actually mean that others didn't come out through the failsafe, just that as the protagonist Defiant Ascended, you are the one that matters. The others, they were expected.

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    I do want to say that I could be wrong though, and I fully welcome missdoomcookie to relay her intentions with the storytelling for this part of the game.

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    Ascendant Sinndel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    The doesn't actually mean that others didn't come out through the failsafe, just that as the protagonist Defiant Ascended.
    You're right, it doesn't, the part of the post you decided to leave out explained that part. Read NPC dialogues, they tell you very specifically that you are the ONLY ascended.
    Last edited by Sinndel; 08-23-2011 at 11:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndel View Post
    You're right, it doesn't, the part of the post you decided to leave out explained that part. Read NPC dialogues, they tell you very specifically that you are the ONLY ascended.
    I have. They are written as through you are the FIRST Ascended they have seen. That's all. You are the vanguard, you are the important one - that doesn't invalidate the other players existence in the story and game world, it just means they are lessened and just 'other characters that are Ascended' and doing things in the general direction that you are. Sorry, I just did the Defiant intro Lv 1-10 for another Defiant alt and it is clearly written as that.
    You are the ONLY Ascended... until more pop out through the failsafe. Again, you're the one that matters, and you're the 'first impression' onto NPCs. Trion seemed to want to make you a big hero among lesser heroes (except in a party in a dungeon, etc, where you are all equally heroic).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    I have. They are written as through you are the FIRST Ascended they have seen. That's all. You are the vanguard, you are the important one - that doesn't invalidate the other players existence in the story and game world, it just means they are lessened and just 'other characters that are Ascended' and doing things in the general direction that you are. Sorry, I just did the Defiant intro Lv 1-10 for another Defiant alt and it is clearly written as that.
    You are the ONLY Ascended... until more pop out through the failsafe. Again, you're the one that matters, and you're the 'first impression' onto NPCs. Trion seemed to want to make you a big hero among lesser heroes (except in a party in a dungeon, etc, where you are all equally heroic).
    I guess we'll have to delay this argument until I can get in-game on a new defiant and show you were they exactly say they broke the mold, you are the only ascended they had time to make.
    Last edited by Sinndel; 08-23-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndel View Post
    I guess we'll have to delay this argument until I can get in-game on a new defiant and show you were they exactly say they broke the mold, you are the only ascended they had time to make.
    Again, you WERE. That's not what I'm getting at. There is not one single Terminus timeline, and there is not one single Defiant Ascended, and in the present game world, they are still trying to just figure out Ascended.

    The failsafe can draw upon a single point in time, but if there are countless Terminus timelines where a (single) Ascended enters the time portal, that provides endless Ascended. The Ark of the Ascended goes from a protective area, to an area of utmost importance to defend, as this is where the Defiant get their super-SOLDIERS.

    Just because a quest tells you, (and you don't have a choice because this is a forced tutorial area) to kill 10 wolves, because you are the first person they've met and they're starving, that doesn't mean that other players are the 'first person' or even that they had to kill 10 wolves. You are the FIRST Ascended from your perspective, but that does not invalidate that there are other failsafe Ascended that arrive afterward, and end up exploring Telara with you.

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