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Thread: Would lore support a playable cultist faction?

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    General of Telara Thulium's Avatar
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    Default Would lore support a playable cultist faction?

    Recently in a post discussing single vs two faction MMOs, as expected, someone suggested a third faction.

    The lore/game already contains references that the cultists are from both sides. We've seen humanoid cultists of varying races (all races) and varying classes (again, all classes).

    Would the lore allow their to be a playable faction of cultists (who could choose from both Defiant and Guardian races) to be the 'true' bad guys. Guardians and Defiants share the same enemy (aside from themselves), and only differ with ideology and tactics.

    Guardians are ascended by the Vigil, Defiant are ascended via their machines at the failsafe, and the cultists are empowered by Regulos.

    Obviously this would need to be expansion content. You could use the justification of their sudden appearance as Regulos taking further action to counter the interference of the Vigil and the Defiant of the future.

    I would attempt to flesh this out further, but I am typing on an iPad. ;)
    Last edited by Thulium; 08-05-2011 at 09:24 AM.
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    Ascendant Puzzlebox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulium View Post
    Recently in a post discussing single vs two faction MMOs, as expected, someone suggested a third faction.

    The lore/game already contains references that the cultists are from both sides. We've seen humanoid cultists of varying races (all races) and varying classes (again, all classes).

    Would the lore allow their to be a playable faction of cultists (who could choose from both Defiant and Guardian races) to be the 'true' bad guys. Guardians and Defiants share the same enemy (aside from themselves), and only differ with ideology and tactics.

    Guardians are ascended by the Vigil, Defiant are ascended via their machines at the failsafe, and the cultists are empowered by Regulos.

    Obviously this would need to be expansion content. You could use the justification of their sudden appearance as Regulos taking further action to counter the interference of the Vigil and the Defiant of the future.

    I would attempt to flesh this out further, but I am typing on an iPad. ;)
    AFAIK, they're not Ascended, how would they utilize the soul system?
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    General of Telara Thulium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlebox View Post
    AFAIK, they're not Ascended, how would they utilize the soul system?
    The justification I'd use is that Regulos "empowers" them in an attempt to counter the interference of the Vigil/future Defiant.

    We're already in an "alternate timeline" that Meridian wasn't destroyed in, so the sudden appearance of stronger, sentient cultist agents seems possible.
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    Champion TiberiusMonkey's Avatar
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    Well, they do kind of have a sort of control over the soul stream.

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    Concept-wise? Yes.

    That said, I can't see the Endless having all of the... well, mortal luxuries players usually need. Like cities. Or... faction leaders.

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    Telaran
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    I like that concept of a third faction and all but...
    ... How on earth are they gonna be interacting with rifts? Surely you can't be sealing your own boss's rifts now can you? Maybe IF we have a 7th Planar faction that's not one of the 6 dragons to join in as the 3rd faction THEN I can see how this *might* work.

    Who knows... *maybe* we have a split from one of the existing faction. Personally, I play Defiant, and I'm not very comfy with Orphiel. I think he's up to something...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crit Error View Post
    I like that concept of a third faction and all but...
    ... How on earth are they gonna be interacting with rifts? Surely you can't be sealing your own boss's rifts now can you? Maybe IF we have a 7th Planar faction that's not one of the 6 dragons to join in as the 3rd faction THEN I can see how this *might* work.

    Who knows... *maybe* we have a split from one of the existing faction. Personally, I play Defiant, and I'm not very comfy with Orphiel. I think he's up to something...
    Orphiel is the one who opened the first rifts, it's pretty much his fault this entire thing is happening.

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alarox View Post
    Orphiel is the one who opened the first rifts, it's pretty much his fault this entire thing is happening.
    Sort of. I think this sort of dealing was inevitable with Aedraxis, and if Orphiel was involved or not, a Shade would have happened.

    The first rifts came with the Blood Storm, and even after the war until the Shade, they STILL happened, just very rarely and easilyish handled. What Orphiel did was allow a much larger and powerful death rift to arrive, empowering Aedraxis much more (though he was already corrupt, keep that in mind) and unleashing death magic across Mathosia and elsewhere. While a Shade MIGHT have not occurred, the original war would have still happened and the Guardians would have won, and Guardian Ascended might have never been made. In the end, timeline-wise, that may actually be a bad thing for the Guardians.

    A lot of the theme of Rift seems to be "we needed this conflict in order to stop the worst result of another conflict from happening".

    1)Needed Guardian/Defiant war to continue, in order to keep both factions up on guard against corruption and the dragons. (otherwise Guardians would have fallen to corruption, and Defiant would have had another Eth downfall)
    2)Needed Terminus to happen, in order to create Defiant Ascended, in order to do #1.
    3)Needed the Shade to happen, in order to open the Ward enough for the Vigil to create Guardian Ascended, which led to them doing #1.

    We need these conflicts in order for the hope to shine in the darkness.

    While Orphiel is quite the wildcard, it is proven that he has the capacity to do both GREAT GOOD and GREAT EVIL - it all just comes down to his immediate, likely selfish, goals at the time. We will likely learn more via questline/dungeon/raid/event regarding him, down the line.
    Last edited by Maeloda; 08-08-2011 at 12:42 PM.

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    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    Sort of. I think this sort of dealing was inevitable with Aedraxis, and if Orphiel was involved or not, a Shade would have happened.

    The first rifts came with the Blood Storm, and even after the war until the Shade, they STILL happened, just very rarely and easilyish handled. What Orphiel did was allow a much larger and powerful death rift to arrive, empowering Aedraxis much more (though he was already corrupt, keep that in mind) and unleashing death magic across Mathosia and elsewhere. While a Shade MIGHT have not occurred, the original war would have still happened and the Guardians would have won, and Guardian Ascended might have never been made. In the end, timeline-wise, that may actually be a bad thing for the Guardians.

    A lot of the theme of Rift seems to be "we needed this conflict in order to stop the worst result of another conflict from happening".

    1)Needed Guardian/Defiant war to continue, in order to keep both factions up on guard against corruption and the dragons. (otherwise Guardians would have fallen to corruption, and Defiant would have had another Eth downfall)
    2)Needed Terminus to happen, in order to create Defiant Ascended, in order to do #1.
    3)Needed the Shade to happen, in order to open the Ward enough for the Vigil to create Guardian Ascended, which led to them doing #1.

    We need these conflicts in order for the hope to shine in the darkness.

    While Orphiel is quite the wildcard, it is proven that he has the capacity to do both GREAT GOOD and GREAT EVIL - it all just comes down to his immediate, likely selfish, goals at the time. We will likely learn more via questline/dungeon/raid/event regarding him, down the line.
    Without Orphiel, Aedraxis wouldn't have had the technology to do what he did. He may have gotten it in the future, but the techonology was used while Aedraxis was being defeated in the final battle..

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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alarox View Post
    Without Orphiel, Aedraxis wouldn't have had the technology to do what he did. He may have gotten it in the future, but the techonology was used while Aedraxis was being defeated in the final battle..
    The thing with Orphiel is that we can't be entirely sure about anything with him. He literally messes with space and time, in multiple alternate universes. While we may see him as evil as a Guardian, as at the worst as a frenemy as a Defiant, we don't actually know what's up with him.

    Fact is, without him doing this in Mathosia, it wouldn't have killed all the Guardians, and the Vigil wouldn't have resurrected many of them to be Ascended, and they wouldn't be able to protect Telara from the dragon cults years down the line, leaving any of those Gilded Prophecy or Drowned Halls outcomes to happen.

    He is kinda corrupt, but kinda aware, kinda helpful, but kinda selfish, kinda destructive, but kinda creative. And it is all about discovery and inventiveness, and experimentation for him, not 'preservation' or harmony.

    He is chaos, and the biggest example of it with the Defiants (and even the whole faction's existance), where the Guardians represent order.

    So yes, while you can blame the actual engineering of opening the world to the Shade on him, I don't think its quite so simple in the larger view (as a lore reader that is more omniscient than any Guardian or Defiant).

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    You have a point. Although he still killed me three times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    The thing with Orphiel is that we can't be entirely sure about anything with him. He literally messes with space and time, in multiple alternate universes. While we may see him as evil as a Guardian, as at the worst as a frenemy as a Defiant, we don't actually know what's up with him.

    Fact is, without him doing this in Mathosia, it wouldn't have killed all the Guardians, and the Vigil wouldn't have resurrected many of them to be Ascended, and they wouldn't be able to protect Telara from the dragon cults years down the line, leaving any of those Gilded Prophecy or Drowned Halls outcomes to happen.

    He is kinda corrupt, but kinda aware, kinda helpful, but kinda selfish, kinda destructive, but kinda creative. And it is all about discovery and inventiveness, and experimentation for him, not 'preservation' or harmony.

    He is chaos, and the biggest example of it with the Defiants (and even the whole faction's existance), where the Guardians represent order.

    So yes, while you can blame the actual engineering of opening the world to the Shade on him, I don't think its quite so simple in the larger view (as a lore reader that is more omniscient than any Guardian or Defiant).
    Which is why he has so much potential to become a third power. We need more surprises. Mad scientist is mad.

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    Plane Walker Xerokine's Avatar
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    The problem with Orphiel is that he's both too obvious and not really a candidate. He was Aedraxis' tutor, yes; but he also taught Asha and Zareph. He was the one who rallied the Bahmi and Eth to come to Port Scion's defense, and he was the one who rescued Asha from the clutches of Regulos and built the magitech defenses of Port Scion.

    As for the Shade, given the overheard conversation, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Orphiel designed machines to slip through the Ward and grab some planar power, then warned Aedraxis not to overload them, because it might damage the Ward. At which point Aedraxis nodded, promised he'd be careful, sent Orphiel back to the lab, then cackled loudly at his own evil.

    If Orphiel is 'evil', he'd have to be an independent one. Not some pawn of Regulos or even the other dragons. And this Sliver and time business makes that possible. The real unanswered question is; where did Orphiel go 16 years from now?

    Personally, I think he built a second Failsafe and - 16 years hence - used it. So which Orphiel are we talking to?
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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerokine View Post
    The problem with Orphiel is that he's both too obvious and not really a candidate. He was Aedraxis' tutor, yes; but he also taught Asha and Zareph. He was the one who rallied the Bahmi and Eth to come to Port Scion's defense, and he was the one who rescued Asha from the clutches of Regulos and built the magitech defenses of Port Scion.

    As for the Shade, given the overheard conversation, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Orphiel designed machines to slip through the Ward and grab some planar power, then warned Aedraxis not to overload them, because it might damage the Ward. At which point Aedraxis nodded, promised he'd be careful, sent Orphiel back to the lab, then cackled loudly at his own evil.

    If Orphiel is 'evil', he'd have to be an independent one. Not some pawn of Regulos or even the other dragons. And this Sliver and time business makes that possible. The real unanswered question is; where did Orphiel go 16 years from now?

    Personally, I think he built a second Failsafe and - 16 years hence - used it. So which Orphiel are we talking to?
    Absolutely, and was just what I was getting at (not what you specifically mentioned, but your feelings on where his character should go).

    I'm really interested in his 'deus ex machina' possible role. Just as the Vigil (and thus the Guardians) could provide some good counter to the other dragons, Orphiel may be needed (or at least his role in the story, hehe) in order to prevent the Terminus.

    Whether or not he'll end up as an enemy as well, who knows?

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    Rift Chaser Unloved's Avatar
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    say the 3rd faction was the Drgaonkin, Hyena guys, and cultist, they where empowered by Regulos is how they became known as The Fallen a different kind of Ascended but they turned on there master realizing there true powers. Not only do they want to destroy the dragons, but the guardians and defiants. They want the world for themselves...


    but this is just a thought ive had many times.. i wanna be a dragon
    Baaaaah

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