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Thread: Starting Zone: You never actually "Go back in time"

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    Rift Disciple hp94's Avatar
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    Default Starting Zone: You never actually "Go back in time"

    It's obvious. It's completely unlike the 88 miles thing. Although, where you're going, you could use some roads.

    You see, if the Failsafe actually brought you back in time, the universe would have already had changed events (IE people would know that it had already looped, people popping out of nowhere, etc). What it actually does is creates a paralell universe exactly as it was when the failsafe was built. It apparently allows infinite number of new universes to be created, although I'm not sure how the lore works on that.

    It's not Time Travel - It's teleportation.

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    Ascendant Romiz's Avatar
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    Read all the lore and watch the CGIs. It is in fact time travel. In the tutorial zone you are at the point the war is lost and both factions get wiped out. We are playing on a altered timeline and working to prevent the destruction.

    Here is the fun we will not know he it worked or not till the game has its finally event when servers close. Till then we can only hope the 2 factions work things out and destroy the true enemy. Even when you are sent to the new timeline your faction blames the other side. But the problem is Guardians trying to force is believe on Defiants. And Defiants get too far into dangerous technology of the dragons.

    Honestly only Trion know the twist that are coming in the years to come. And have a feeling going to be a wild ride to the very end.
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    Rift Chaser Rakanishu's Avatar
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    Well, you both have a point. It is time travel, but it does create an "alternate" time line.. where the starter zone is no longer the future. Purely by the presence of the defiant ascendend, that future has changed and the time line you were previously in, is no longer valid, so to speak.
    As it stands now, our characters are more replaceable than our gear...
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    Rift Disciple Bearmug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakanishu View Post
    Well, you both have a point. It is time travel, but it does create an "alternate" time line.. where the starter zone is no longer the future. Purely by the presence of the defiant ascendend, that future has changed and the time line you were previously in, is no longer valid, so to speak.
    It still exists, as shown by Fall of Lantern Hook and other 'alternate reality' splinters, you just made a new reality and entered it.
    The Guardians are short sighted zealots who refuse to see the bigger picture, and the Defiant are so focused on the bigger picture that they take enormous risks.
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    Rift Chaser Rakanishu's Avatar
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    Well, does it specifically say that the Fall of Lantern Hook is takes place in the same reality as the defiant starting area? (as far as i could tell, those might be separate versions of the future)
    As it stands now, our characters are more replaceable than our gear...
    My character is not a coat hanger!

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    Champion Pretext's Avatar
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    This depends purely on how you think time exists as a force in the universe and how you think time travel actually works. If you believe in a seamless time stream there are no parallel universes, events are being started again from the point you go back. If time is more one holistic blob for you; then time is already all there and time travel is like changing the ingredients in a ‘big cake’ of time.

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    Telaran NeverKnowsBest's Avatar
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    Not exactly on-topic, but a thought that's always bothered me: the way Orphiel's device works is that it's supposed to send you back to the moment it was created. That being the case, shouldn't everyone be coming out of the device at the same time, regardless of when they entered? And following up, that being the case, how does the device ensure that people who are time traveling don't meld into one another if they're arriving at the same time?

    I realize that for the game's purposes the former is not the case because it would require real-world time travel back to when the first player jumped through the device, and that the latter is not an issue because the character models in-game can be passed through, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of a character in the game world. He/she's being told that he and everyone else who passes through the device are going to be sent back to the moment it was created, and these people aren't worried about potentially getting melded to someone else when they materialize on the other side? I realize the world is ending, and they don't really have a choice, and it seems you're the last one through as you're playing through the starter zone, but that doesn't mean you were the only one, and I certainly wouldn't be thrilled about the prospect of spot-welding myself to a Necromancer pet.

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    Plane Walker Shadow Master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverKnowsBest View Post
    Not exactly on-topic, but a thought that's always bothered me: the way Orphiel's device works is that it's supposed to send you back to the moment it was created. That being the case, shouldn't everyone be coming out of the device at the same time, regardless of when they entered? And following up, that being the case, how does the device ensure that people who are time traveling don't meld into one another if they're arriving at the same time?

    I realize that for the game's purposes the former is not the case because it would require real-world time travel back to when the first player jumped through the device, and that the latter is not an issue because the character models in-game can be passed through, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of a character in the game world. He/she's being told that he and everyone else who passes through the device are going to be sent back to the moment it was created, and these people aren't worried about potentially getting melded to someone else when they materialize on the other side? I realize the world is ending, and they don't really have a choice, and it seems you're the last one through as you're playing through the starter zone, but that doesn't mean you were the only one, and I certainly wouldn't be thrilled about the prospect of spot-welding myself to a Necromancer pet.
    Only a relatively small number of Defiant Ascended (one party) or one single Defiant Ascended actually traveled back in time.

    The vast majority of Defiant Ascended are manufactured in the present thanks to the schematics that the time traveler(s) brought.
    Last edited by Shadow Master; 06-10-2011 at 05:34 AM.
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    Telaran Dimented's Avatar
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    as The Doctor says

    "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff. "

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    Ascendant Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Master View Post
    Only a relatively small number of Defiant Ascended (one party) or one single Defiant Ascended actually traveled back in time.
    I think you have to engage in a little bit of gameplay/story segregation here. you see only a party's worth of Defiant Ascended because having ~1000 Defiant pop up at the same time is impossible for the engine to handle.

    So the story goes, in a Defiant newbie's point of view, that there has been a constant stream of Defiant running through the time portal, and that the player is the last Defiant Ascended to go through before Regulos kills everyone.

    Why there aren't ~1000 Defiant popping out in the 'present day' at the exact same time is for the exact same reason, though that being said we did largely get ~1000 Defiant popping out within a month real-time per server, which is quite the army of super-soldiers to fight this war.
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    Plane Walker Shadow Master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I think you have to engage in a little bit of gameplay/story segregation here. you see only a party's worth of Defiant Ascended because having ~1000 Defiant pop up at the same time is impossible for the engine to handle.

    So the story goes, in a Defiant newbie's point of view, that there has been a constant stream of Defiant running through the time portal, and that the player is the last Defiant Ascended to go through before Regulos kills everyone.

    Why there aren't ~1000 Defiant popping out in the 'present day' at the exact same time is for the exact same reason, though that being said we did largely get ~1000 Defiant popping out within a month real-time per server, which is quite the army of super-soldiers to fight this war.
    Well, since this is the Lore section, I was dealing purely in terms of the story presented in-game.

    Only one or a party of Defiant Ascended escaped through the Failsafe Device and brought schematics to the present, which allows present day Defiant to create Ascended to fuel their war against Regulos.

    As for the gameplay in the starting areas, I suppose that's up to every player to decide: whether they feel like claiming they were one of the Defiant Ascended to travel back in time or one of the new ones manufactured by the present day Defiants. Though I'm not 100% sure of whether the latter works flawlessly since I haven't played through Defiant content yet, so I'm not sure whether it's mentioned anywhere in-game that you are in fact a time traveler and not just a present day Ascended creation.
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  12. #12
    Plane Walker Sebiale's Avatar
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    Not this discussion again...
    I'm all for trying to figure the game out, but this issue has been beaten to death. Several times (Regulos keeps resurrecting it :P).
    I don't remember if we ever got an official response on the nature of this, I don't think so, and I doubt we will. Time travel has always been a thorny issue to understand.

    At this point, I think we just have to go "the particulars of it don't matter, we were there, now we're here. End of story." Unless we get/got something official on it or if something comes up in-game that makes the details of our trans-location relevant it should just stay buried.
    Last edited by Sebiale; 06-11-2011 at 09:20 AM.
    Akylios, the Profane: "is beyond understanding. The living interest him because the tortured howls of races sound almost like music. He does not seek victory over men any more than the ocean strives against the land. One day he will simply wash all mortals away just to hear them scream their silly symphony. He was mad even before he learned all fears and secrets. There are no words for what Akylios is now."

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    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    Of topic to the game, but on topic to time travel and technology, but IRL.

    At the rate technology advances, data storage is becoming such, that in the future, millennia of information could be utilised with technology to create virtual worlds where we could replay our lives, or our ancestry. Resulting in billions of parallel timelines with only subtle changes altering outcomes. Effectively travelling back in time with perfect simulation. The number of different life like simulations held in data make it highly unlikely that this world we live in now is the real one.

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You obviously know nothing about Laethys, have you tried him?
    I don't log in anymore.

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    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuhart View Post
    Of topic to the game, but on topic to time travel and technology, but IRL.

    At the rate technology advances, data storage is becoming such, that in the future, millennia of information could be utilised with technology to create virtual worlds where we could replay our lives, or our ancestry. Resulting in billions of parallel timelines with only subtle changes altering outcomes. Effectively travelling back in time with perfect simulation. The number of different life like simulations held in data make it highly unlikely that this world we live in now is the real one.
    Now I want to watch 13th floor. Thanks.

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    Champion Pretext's Avatar
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    Tell you what, as we are all in a virtual reality why don't we all go outside and go on the rampage? After all if you get locked up for 20 years its only virtual reality right?

    Or you could take responsibility for your world and your actions. Up to you.

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