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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by missdoomcookie View Post
    Present Day - New ranks of Ascended Guardians return with a vision of Telara's destruction from the Vigil to guide their new crusade. All but simultaneously, Orphiel erects a Failsafe device, a temporal anchor by which Defiants might return if need be. As it is initiated, Ascended Defiants spill through from the future to tell of the world's forthcoming doom.

    Defiant Future:

    8 years after present day: Meridian is sacked by the Guardians. The surviving Defiants hole up within well fortified life factories to continue trying to solve the trouble of Ascension with machines.

    14 years after present day: Orphiel disappears without a trace.

    20 years after present day: Sylver Valis discovers the means to creating Ascended with machines. These new Defiants are sent back to try to avert the disaster they witness as they escape through the Failsafe to the past.
    This is impossible. It is very clear in the Defiant prologue (or is it an alternate epilogue?) that you, the player, are the only Defiant they are able to send back. They have to divert power from their defenses to use the Failsafe. Immediately afterward, Regulos devours what is left of the world.

    Furthermore, you are greeted by many NPCs as the first (and presumably the only) to come through.

    Besides, if more than one person were sent through, they would all occupy the same space at the same time -- right on the pad the moment the Failsafe is completed and activated.

    But really, the most conclusive evidence is in my first paragraph. None of the other players you meet as Defiant are Ascended.

    It's up to you and you alone to find Sarah Connor. (thankfully the Failsafe sends back your clothing)

  2. #32
    Plane Walker Chthonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugPug View Post
    This is impossible. It is very clear in the Defiant prologue (or is it an alternate epilogue?) that you, the player, are the only Defiant they are able to send back. They have to divert power from their defenses to use the Failsafe. Immediately afterward, Regulos devours what is left of the world.

    Furthermore, you are greeted by many NPCs as the first (and presumably the only) to come through.

    Besides, if more than one person were sent through, they would all occupy the same space at the same time -- right on the pad the moment the Failsafe is completed and activated.

    But really, the most conclusive evidence is in my first paragraph. None of the other players you meet as Defiant are Ascended.

    It's up to you and you alone to find Sarah Connor. (thankfully the Failsafe sends back your clothing)

    You bring up some amazingly good points and these are the same things that have been bugging me.

    I would be more inclined to believe that they use the Life Forge to create more Ascended in the present after you return from the future - and that is where other Defiant come from. It's just that every PC sees Defiant Ascention from the perspective of the very first Defiant Ascended (as a gameplay mechanic).
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    It's just that every PC sees Defiant Ascention from the perspective of the very first Defiant Ascended (as a gameplay mechanic).
    You're unique, just like everybody else!

    This is just how I saw it anyway...

  4. #34
    Plane Walker Sebiale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugPug View Post
    This is impossible. It is very clear in the Defiant prologue (or is it an alternate epilogue?) that you, the player, are the only Defiant they are able to send back. They have to divert power from their defenses to use the Failsafe. Immediately afterward, Regulos devours what is left of the world.

    Furthermore, you are greeted by many NPCs as the first (and presumably the only) to come through.

    Besides, if more than one person were sent through, they would all occupy the same space at the same time -- right on the pad the moment the Failsafe is completed and activated.

    But really, the most conclusive evidence is in my first paragraph. None of the other players you meet as Defiant are Ascended.

    It's up to you and you alone to find Sarah Connor. (thankfully the Failsafe sends back your clothing)
    Quote Originally Posted by missdoomcookie View Post
    I'll step in on this Defiant issue. Yes, in the official lore storyline, the Defiant Ascended all come from the future. You will not encounter Defiants ascending anyone else anywhere in the game currently.
    It's part of the function of the gameplay as Chthonic points out, just suspend your disbelief and go with it.
    Also, you need to keep the Doctor in mind. :P
    Akylios, the Profane: "is beyond understanding. The living interest him because the tortured howls of races sound almost like music. He does not seek victory over men any more than the ocean strives against the land. One day he will simply wash all mortals away just to hear them scream their silly symphony. He was mad even before he learned all fears and secrets. There are no words for what Akylios is now."

    Laethys, Queen of Avarice: "The Gold Dragonís flesh flows like molten metal, and diamonds are her eyes. The riches of worlds will fall through her clutches, and she will never have enough while anyone else has anything at all. Laethys will feast atop a pile of famished wretches. All will adore her alone, and she will never give them quite enough."

  5. #35
    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugPug View Post
    This is impossible. It is very clear in the Defiant prologue (or is it an alternate epilogue?) that you, the player, are the only Defiant they are able to send back. They have to divert power from their defenses to use the Failsafe. Immediately afterward, Regulos devours what is left of the world.

    Furthermore, you are greeted by many NPCs as the first (and presumably the only) to come through.

    Besides, if more than one person were sent through, they would all occupy the same space at the same time -- right on the pad the moment the Failsafe is completed and activated.

    But really, the most conclusive evidence is in my first paragraph. None of the other players you meet as Defiant are Ascended.

    It's up to you and you alone to find Sarah Connor. (thankfully the Failsafe sends back your clothing)
    Oh wow! I must've been lucky. On my server, five of us grouped during our experiance. We made it all safely through the failsafe together. Probably the reasoning behind the long queues seen that day.

    Oh yea, I almost forgot the best part ...
    This is what Sylver Valis told us ...

    "This Failsafe will send you, and others like you, back in time to the moment it was built. This moment should hopefully be long enough before the chain of events that lead to Regulos' victory that you can affect meaningful change."
    In my world it takes many more then just me to defeat evil gods. I'm glad the writers make me feel like a hero, but I'm more glad they gave me help!

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  6. #36
    Plane Touched Nineaxis's Avatar
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    I also seem to recall that when you go through the failsafe the first thing you hear is a technician say "Ahhhhhh they're coming through" or something along those lines. A plural description of a wave of people from the future.

    Nowhere when playing did I ever get the idea that I was the "only one", just one that they like giving odd missions to.

  7. #37
    Shield of Telara Arixtotle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarianne View Post
    This is like a madman using charges to blow up a dam. then saying, kill all masons, stone workers and their tools.
    The only way to repair the dam is with those tools.

    I am pretty sure Orphiel is not a good guy in any sense. Asha is pretty clearly a straight up good guy.
    but Orphiel.. The excerpts on his lore suggest at least warmongering in an attempt to gain more access to tech. And the Gaurdian intro, he is making warmachines, raising the dead(granted something neither side really seems to have issues with.. necromancers are a class), and concerned entirely with "stealing the power of the Vigil" and not at all with stopping the Aedraxis. In no way, shape or form is he a misunderstood or innocent dupe in the Guardian intro. If "maybe" not destroy the world, he is still clearly "take over the world".

    His disappearance. he has a time machine that works, and that world is a lost cause. You do the math.
    Unlike Asha and the rest of the Defiants that go down fighting to the last, I'm pretty sure the lore is going to reveal he abandons ship to save himself. Very likely will show up in the current timeline as a raid boss at some point.
    I disagree that Orphiel is a bad guy. He has questionable morals yes, but that doesn't make him evil. He's the kind of scientist that believes that everything is worth knowing no matter how good or bad it effects others. The question is how far does his lack of certain morals go? To me Sylvar seems to be worse then Orphiel since Sylvar designed a way to suck the souls out of the Guardian Ascended to create the Defiant Ascended. To me that's worse then Orphiel just creating some machines that broke the ward.

    We don't know a lot about him though. He seems to appeared out of no where just like Cyril. Though at least Orphiel was known before the war. Cyril just appeared to help out Zareph. There's so much we're missing on those two characters. I think that those two are the ones we actually know the least about. Orphiel also doesn't seem to age BTW. If you look at Cyril in Mathosia and then him in Sanctum he actually looks older in Sanctum since 20 years have passed. Orphiel doesn't look like he's changed at all.

    About him and the powers of the Vigil, Orphiel conceivably wanted the powers of the Vigil to create Ascended. He could very well have been emotionally distraught by the fact that Asha was not brought back by the Vigil and yet all these other lesser known people were. He does really seem to be the type of person who wants to know everything. When he saw the Vigil's power he wanted to know how it worked. Which is why he tried to steal it. Though honestly, Orphiel is rather OOC in the Guardian Starting zone. I wonder if it was colored at all by impressions of the Guardians against him. It's just completely different than how he seems in other lore. If you talk to him in Meridan he's really not wanting to take over the world. He just wants to create and learn.

    I also don't think Zareph would have convinced Cyril and the Guardians to work with Orphiel, which is implied in the OP of this thread, unless Orphiel was a good person. They would have just tried to kill him.

    Also, Aedraxis raised the dead using the powers of Regulous not Orphiel.

    I have a feeling that Orphiel might not be from this time since he's already proven he can make a time machine. I also do believe that he may have traveled back in time when he disappeared. The question is, is the Orphiel in the Spire the future Orphiel or the present Orphiel. Gahh Thinking of this time travel stuff hurts my head.
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  8. #38
    Soulwalker Fanraeth's Avatar
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    Yeah, Orphiel does seem oddly OOC in the Guardians intro. But then all the Defiant in the Guardian intro are evil maniacs and all the Guardians in the Defiant intro are evil maniacs, so perhaps the intros are deliberately biased a bit to establish that dislike for the other side amongst the players.

  9. #39
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    Clearly, unlike the other NPCs which we assume have moved to newer zones when we meet them for quests, there are multiple Orphiels that are coming from a myriad of alternate timelines, all converging in the current one to help end the threat of the Bloodstorm forever. The Orphiel in the tower is the current one, while the other sightings of Orphiel (such as in Stonefield) are from alternate realities! One is from when Lantern Hook fell and Maelforge was victorious, and other Orphiels popped in from various other realities where a dragon won.

    And in the final raid, all seven Orphiels (one from each plane and the current present one) all pool together to create an orbital Death Star with a laser beam that punctures all the planar planes, ending the threat and the need for the Ward once and for all.

  10. #40
    Shield of Telara Arixtotle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanraeth View Post
    Yeah, Orphiel does seem oddly OOC in the Guardians intro. But then all the Defiant in the Guardian intro are evil maniacs and all the Guardians in the Defiant intro are evil maniacs, so perhaps the intros are deliberately biased a bit to establish that dislike for the other side amongst the players.
    That is true. The Guardians we see in the Defiant starting area are a lot more fanatical than the ones we see when we're in the Guardian zones.

    Also, Blink is the best episode of Doctor Who ever. The Angels are the scariest creatures I have ever seen on any TV show or in any movie.
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  11. #41
    Plane Walker Sebiale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arixtotle View Post
    I also don't think Zareph would have convinced Cyril and the Guardians to work with Orphiel, which is implied in the OP of this thread, unless Orphiel was a good person. They would have just tried to kill him.
    Zareph had the Defiant and Guardians working together until he died at Port Scion.
    Akylios, the Profane: "is beyond understanding. The living interest him because the tortured howls of races sound almost like music. He does not seek victory over men any more than the ocean strives against the land. One day he will simply wash all mortals away just to hear them scream their silly symphony. He was mad even before he learned all fears and secrets. There are no words for what Akylios is now."

    Laethys, Queen of Avarice: "The Gold Dragonís flesh flows like molten metal, and diamonds are her eyes. The riches of worlds will fall through her clutches, and she will never have enough while anyone else has anything at all. Laethys will feast atop a pile of famished wretches. All will adore her alone, and she will never give them quite enough."

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebiale View Post
    Zareph had the Defiant and Guardians working together until he died at Port Scion.
    That was my point. If Orphiel was truly a bad person I don't belief Zareph would have allowed him to help.
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  13. #43
    Plane Walker Sebiale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arixtotle View Post
    That was my point. If Orphiel was truly a bad person I don't belief Zareph would have allowed him to help.
    Zareph's a good guy I'm sure, but he wouldn't be my first go-to-guy for judgment calls. This is the guy that didn't realize Aedraxis was a dragon cultist, his own brother.
    Not to suggest Orphiel is necessarily bad. Although if he is good, he's hardly an excellent judge of character either.

    Aedraxis was either really good at fooling people, or everyone else are just idiots.
    Akylios, the Profane: "is beyond understanding. The living interest him because the tortured howls of races sound almost like music. He does not seek victory over men any more than the ocean strives against the land. One day he will simply wash all mortals away just to hear them scream their silly symphony. He was mad even before he learned all fears and secrets. There are no words for what Akylios is now."

    Laethys, Queen of Avarice: "The Gold Dragonís flesh flows like molten metal, and diamonds are her eyes. The riches of worlds will fall through her clutches, and she will never have enough while anyone else has anything at all. Laethys will feast atop a pile of famished wretches. All will adore her alone, and she will never give them quite enough."

  14. #44
    Shield of Telara Arixtotle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebiale View Post
    Zareph's a good guy I'm sure, but he wouldn't be my first go-to-guy for judgment calls. This is the guy that didn't realize Aedraxis was a dragon cultist, his own brother.
    Not to suggest Orphiel is necessarily bad. Although if he is good, he's hardly an excellent judge of character either.

    Aedraxis was either really good at fooling people, or everyone else are just idiots.
    As I said, Orphiel has questionable morals. I don't see him as either good or bad. He's rather gray. We don't have enough information to fully make a judgment.

    Aedraxis did seem to be really good at fooling people. He convinced many people to follow him and they completely ignored everything Zareph said. It took Aedraxis turning his own people into undead for the rest to realize how bad he became. He seems like a Hitler-esque character. Charismatic and knowing exactly what to say to get people to follow him.
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  15. #45
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    Now this really is NEED TO KNOW info. Thank you for posting this. I have been postulating and speculating, and now have something concrete to go on.

    Missdoomcookie FTW!

    P.S.- For the record... I do not trust Orphiel.... Something about that dude does not sit right with me. Yes, I am Defiant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sebiale View Post
    Zareph's a good guy I'm sure, but he wouldn't be my first go-to-guy for judgment calls. This is the guy that didn't realize Aedraxis was a dragon cultist, his own brother.
    Not to suggest Orphiel is necessarily bad. Although if he is good, he's hardly an excellent judge of character either.

    Aedraxis was either really good at fooling people, or everyone else are just idiots.
    For that matter how about Alsbeth... She had EVERYONE duped! (Words cannot express how much she aggravates me...) WTB /pimpslap
    Last edited by Belenos; 03-15-2011 at 09:04 AM.

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