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Thread: Timeline!

  1. #16
    Champion 13moons's Avatar
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    a graphical time-line, rendered by the art dept. would make a nice desktop.

    /duck.



    and hai !
    Last edited by 13moons; 03-09-2011 at 04:41 AM.

  2. #17
    Prophet of Telara Pipra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missdoomcookie View Post
    Hello to our wonderful lore hounds!
    Thank you, that was spectacular.

  3. #18
    Ascendant empyrean's Avatar
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    Default Thank you!

    Thank you so much for this timeline!

    Good read, and totally gave me new insights on the happenings in Telara.

    This:

    8 years after present day: Meridian is sacked by the Guardians. The surviving Defiants hole up within well fortified life factories to continue trying to solve the trouble of Ascension with machines.
    disappoints me though.

    This implies that the Guardians were a wee bit justified in waging war on the Defiants - since the two factions basically enter war thanks to the end of Port Scion.

    I had always pictured the Guardians to be (wrongly) pissed about Orphiel and the Eths machines and the chaos they caused with Aedraxis at the Shade War and hence launching a holy crusade to teach the defiant a lesson.

    Unless my lore is all wonky.

    Anyway, so can someone please clarify: After the Shade of Regulos is defeated (with our PCs involved), there was an uneasy truce between the Guardians and the Defiant given that the Bahmi reinforced the walls of Port Scion and what-not, right?

    And of course, then Port Scion was lost which both sides blame on each other and ill feelings bubble up which leads either to:
    a) present day, where our PCs are battling each other, Port Scion in ruins, Zareph disappeared
    or b) Defiant future: Ascended wage war on Defiant and crush most of them.

    Sorry for the stupid questions: I don't have the comic

  4. #19
    Ascendant Tachi's Avatar
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    Wow! Just WOW! Thanks so much for clarifying things.

    20 years before present day: Aedraxis uses the machines built for him by Orphiel Farwind to crack the Ward, unleashing the power of Regulos onto Telara in an event that would become known as the Shade. This triggers the beginning of the rifts. The heroes of the Guardians are returned for the first time to stop Aedraxis from completely handing Telara to Regulos.
    This pretty much justifies the Guardians hate for the Defiant machines, but the Defiant are trying to make things right because they know the future, or one future at least.

    Did Orphiel build the machine for Aedraxis willingly or was he ordered to do so? Was he betrayed by what Aedraxis did with the machine?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenArmadillo View Post
    Is the intent of the lore that ALL Defiant player characters were present for this one event? And/or multiple similar alternate futures that ended up basically the same way? Or are each of our characters under the impression that some of their comrades were made in the present using notes brought back from the future? It just seems like the failsafe incident is the Woodstock of the lore - everyone thinks they were there, but everyone also remembers that there weren't very many others present at the time.
    This is exactly how the Defiant intro left me feeling -- after all, I deliver the note . And I'm okay with this. I deliver the schematics, as it were, for Ascension, and the person I deliver it to makes no mention of having seen others arriving with the same thing. At best, I completed the introduction with a group, and so the small handful of people I entered the machine with explains the other person(s) spawning into the world at similar times there at the machine.

    I just ignore seeing others appear as I walk past later, the same way I ignore other players talking about having killed instance bosses and having their loot, etc. So, yes, Woodstock is an amusing way to illustrate exactly how the story makes me feel. Now, I suppose the "multiple similar alternate futures" theory could have been supported by gameplay, by changing the NPC reactions to your arrival and quest turn-ins. "Look, there's another one!" and "This note's a bit smudged in places, but we should be able to cross-reference the plans with incomplete versions delivered by others to recreate the process," respectively, as an example. But that's not how it's written.

    Quote Originally Posted by empyrean View Post
    This:

    [8 years after present day: Meridian is sacked by the Guardians. The surviving Defiants hole up within well fortified life factories to continue trying to solve the trouble of Ascension with machines.]

    disappoints me though.

    This implies that the Guardians were a wee bit justified in waging war on the Defiants - since the two factions basically enter war thanks to the end of Port Scion.
    I disagree. All it implies is that the Guardians were more powerful than Ascended-less Defiants, and that they waged war. The war started before either side's players arrive on the scene, and before the timeline split between the Defiant intro and the game present. (Remember, the game will no longer result in the Defiant intro, because once the player completes it, the Defiants have Ascended, now, and don't have to discover it themselves over the next 20 years)

    The war itself is caused over three factors: 1) lingering distrust over Orphiel's involvement with Aedraxis (and the fact that the technology is what Aedraxis used); 2) confusion/delusion over Alsbeth's role in Port Scion's fall (the Defiants probably got it closer to the truth, while the Guardians suspect she was a Defiant agent); and 3) Zereph's death, since he was the only one really interested in holding an alliance between the two together.

    None of those factors really implicates either side as justified. The Guardians have a definitive point about technology being the cause of the trouble, and the Defiant don't want to back down and destroy it. I'm unsure as to the exact nature of Orphiel's involvement with Aedraxis; if it's explained better in-game, I haven't gotten there yet. Yet, his actions more near the present would seem to indicate guilt and remorse over the role his aid played, and a determination to redeem himself in the eyes of history.

    Likewise, as I mentioned, I have a suspicion that the Defiant probably are more correct about Alsbeth; she was a trusted Guardian who became corrupted and betrayed everybody. If I've got this right, they're perfectly in the right to indignantly deny the accusations the Guardians have essentially levelled at them. In addition, going back to Orphiel, they might still be innocent despite the use to which their technology was put.

    Quote Originally Posted by empyrean View Post
    I had always pictured the Guardians to be (wrongly) pissed about Orphiel and the Eths machines and the chaos they caused with Aedraxis at the Shade War and hence launching a holy crusade to teach the defiant a lesson.

    Unless my lore is all wonky.

    Anyway, so can someone please clarify: After the Shade of Regulos is defeated (with our PCs involved), there was an uneasy truce between the Guardians and the Defiant given that the Bahmi reinforced the walls of Port Scion and what-not, right?

    And of course, then Port Scion was lost which both sides blame on each other and ill feelings bubble up which leads either to:
    a) present day, where our PCs are battling each other, Port Scion in ruins, Zareph disappeared
    or b) Defiant future: Ascended wage war on Defiant and crush most of them.

    Sorry for the stupid questions: I don't have the comic
    Actually, it leads to both. Essentially, it leads to Port Scion in ruins, Guardians and Defiant at war (presumably, the PC Guardians would have fought -- and won fairly one-sidedly -- in this war, too, we just don't play through this version of history), leading to the Defiant future, where the Guardians crush the Defiant but can't stop Regulos; the Defiant send Defiant PCs back through time, causing a divergence to the timeline we all play, which will not result in the Defiant future (though whether or not we can hold back the rifts and Regulos' return while infighting with each other has yet to be seen, as it were).

    So it's not an "either or" when it comes to the game's present day or the Defiant future. It leads to the Defiant future, which causes the present day.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tachi View Post
    Wow! Just WOW! Thanks so much for clarifying things.



    This pretty much justifies the Guardians hate for the Defiant machines, but the Defiant are trying to make things right because they know the future, or one future at least.

    Did Orphiel build the machine for Aedraxis willingly or was he ordered to do so? Was he betrayed by what Aedraxis did with the machine?
    This is like a madman using charges to blow up a dam. then saying, kill all masons, stone workers and their tools.
    The only way to repair the dam is with those tools.

    I am pretty sure Orphiel is not a good guy in any sense. Asha is pretty clearly a straight up good guy.
    but Orphiel.. The excerpts on his lore suggest at least warmongering in an attempt to gain more access to tech. And the Gaurdian intro, he is making warmachines, raising the dead(granted something neither side really seems to have issues with.. necromancers are a class), and concerned entirely with "stealing the power of the Vigil" and not at all with stopping the Aedraxis. In no way, shape or form is he a misunderstood or innocent dupe in the Guardian intro. If "maybe" not destroy the world, he is still clearly "take over the world".

    His disappearance. he has a time machine that works, and that world is a lost cause. You do the math.
    Unlike Asha and the rest of the Defiants that go down fighting to the last, I'm pretty sure the lore is going to reveal he abandons ship to save himself. Very likely will show up in the current timeline as a raid boss at some point.

  7. #22
    RIFT Fan Site Operator EntreNous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tachi View Post
    Wow! Just WOW! Thanks so much for clarifying things.



    This pretty much justifies the Guardians hate for the Defiant machines, but the Defiant are trying to make things right because they know the future, or one future at least.

    Did Orphiel build the machine for Aedraxis willingly or was he ordered to do so? Was he betrayed by what Aedraxis did with the machine?
    @Tachi
    Willingness:
    We learn from Orpiels new lore page that he offers to build machines for Aedraxis. There is nothing more directly available, other then this. So we have to believe in some narcist way, that Orphiel stepped up to the plate for his own reasons.

    "Orphiel leaned forward intently. “I could build you such devices, Highness, given the promise that once war is over, we explore the technology’s peacetime applications.” - (Orphiel speaking to Aedraxis)

    Betrayal:
    ... The machine cracks the ward ... kills Asha, his dear friend ... and starts the Shade.
    I believe a more inticing question would be: At what point do you think Orphiel felt betrayed?
    He could have possibly felt it earlier if in fact he was witness to Aedraxis rituals or had heard of them.
    There's no doubt that (in my mind at least) at some point he felt betrayed. After all, Aedraxis foiled his plan of grandure: that being peacetime applications of the machine itself.
    RiftRares ... A work in progress.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by missdoomcookie View Post
    Hello to our wonderful lore hounds!
    Win! Thank you for confirming a lot of what I expected.
    Respectfully Submitted,
    Kinslayer
    Crusaders of Stuff

  9. #24
    Shield of Telara Jhenox's Avatar
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    Thank you so much!

  10. #25
    Shield of Telara Jhenox's Avatar
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    Can we sticky this one?

  11. #26
    Plane Walker Chthonic's Avatar
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    Intense... feelings... of... nerdjoy.

    AKKKK.

    You're the best, Doomy Doom Doom.
    ^ Not a Llama ^


    Cleric LFG for Key of the Twilight: Heals, DPS or Tank. PST.

  12. #27
    Evy
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    Thanks so much! That explains a lot.

  13. #28
    Shield of Telara Jhenox's Avatar
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    25 years before present day: King Jostir dies, and his two sons, Aedraxis and Zareph, become tangled up in a Civil War over who will take the throne.
    From Zareph's journal and other books around Mathosia, it sounds like Zareph had originally acknowledged Aedraxis as king and only went to open war with him, even though he sounds like he was ruling as a tyrant, when it was confirmed that he had aligned himself with Regulos.

  14. #29
    Ascendant Tachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntreNous View Post
    @Tachi
    Willingness:
    We learn from Orpiels new lore page that he offers to build machines for Aedraxis. There is nothing more directly available, other then this. So we have to believe in some narcist way, that Orphiel stepped up to the plate for his own reasons.

    "Orphiel leaned forward intently. “I could build you such devices, Highness, given the promise that once war is over, we explore the technology’s peacetime applications.” - (Orphiel speaking to Aedraxis)

    Betrayal:
    ... The machine cracks the ward ... kills Asha, his dear friend ... and starts the Shade.
    I believe a more inticing question would be: At what point do you think Orphiel felt betrayed?
    He could have possibly felt it earlier if in fact he was witness to Aedraxis rituals or had heard of them.
    There's no doubt that (in my mind at least) at some point he felt betrayed. After all, Aedraxis foiled his plan of grandure: that being peacetime applications of the machine itself.

    Thank you. Perhaps then he wasn't betrayed as much as he was someone with grand ideas for his machines that did not thoroughly think of the consequences, or maybe ignored the potential consequences because he was so intent on seeing his dreams realized?

  15. #30
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    I have a really bad feeling about Orphiel just because of the Guardian events in Mathosia during the Shade war (or whatever you call it). He outright says that if you hadn't destroyed his machines that he could have stolen the power of the vigil. That calls into question a LOT of other things about him, his intentions, etc. I don't necessarily say he's working for Regulos (I actually think he is NOT), but more out for himself, and who cares about everybody else.


    And on a "really wild speculation" realm, I think it's possible that he's a rogue God. Could have been one of the Vigil (remember, the gods came together and FORMED the Vigil at some point, they didn't start out with that title for themselves), but didn't align himself with them, and is looking to overthrow them. Hence the stealing of their power. This theory breaks down in a few places, but it explains a bit more than it has problems with IMO. He may or may not care about the world and what happens.

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