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    Plane Walker Omedon's Avatar
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    Default Instant Adventure Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotflashes View Post
    They have not adjusted event bosses, only Instant Adventure bosses.
    To be fair, this was needed, as goboro IA bosses were clearly and obviously scaled around everyone having the hour-long FotA, which no longer exists. As a strictly IA player, I'm glad they got around to that boss nerf. Maybe I might leave silverwood and try goboro again knowing that this has been addressed.
    Last edited by Omedon; 03-04-2015 at 08:56 AM.
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    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    To be fair, this was needed, as goboro IA bosses were clearly and obviously scaled around everyone having the hour-long FotA, which no longer exists.
    Actually, they were not even scaled around that. They were just incorrectly set up - a base health value before the scaling buff is applied was just wrong.

    Maybe I might leave silverwood and try goboro again knowing that this has been addressed.
    As an aside, bosses and other IA content in low level zones like SW and FM will be getting a buff. Basically, GR IA got reigned in, low level IA content is getting brought up, with the goal of the over all challenge being more consistent. I don't have an ETA on the low level changes yet - I have to get some other new IA content done first...
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    Plane Walker Omedon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Actually, they were not even scaled around that. They were just incorrectly set up - a base health value before the scaling buff is applied was just wrong.



    As an aside, bosses and other IA content in low level zones like SW and FM will be getting a buff. Basically, GR IA got reigned in, low level IA content is getting brought up, with the goal of the over all challenge being more consistent. I don't have an ETA on the low level changes yet - I have to get some other new IA content done first...
    Thanks for the clarification on the health buff, Tacitus! I'm glad it was a more honest overlooking than something as silly as "dammit we can't hold it up for an hour any more, tone it down!" hehe.

    As for the silverwood boss buff, honestly with silverwood being the hopping place it is, it's needed, and I say this as "captain accessibility." With groups almost always in the teens in SW, if I stop to scratch my nose, I miss the boss fight. I'd like to at least get to hit them, so this is good!

    The only complaint I have about the new IA experience (which, by the way, has amplified my interest in the game, well done!) is a lingering one of getting "complete the zone event" adventures for events scaled in the orange-to-red range of the IA group's mentor'ed level. I'm very appreciative of the 15 person gate for this IA, but once they pop, the challenge should be in line with the "parallel soloing" ethic of instant adventures. So many times I've been getting destroyed by a 17-18th level creatures while mentor'ed down and I've been tempted to just leave the IA group to get to my full level to start murdering things.
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    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    The only complaint I have about the new IA experience ... is a lingering one of getting "complete the zone event" adventures
    As of 3.2, this will no longer be an issue - there will be no more Zone Event adventures.

    Some background - IA did not have these adventures originally, but every time a zone event popped up, half the raid (at least) would chase the zone event while in the IA group. So to cope with that, we added it as an actual adventure. Which worked... "ok" pre-SL and with only a couple of zones of IA. As zones got added and as IA raid sizes got smaller from being dispersed across multiple zones, these adventures become road blocks to an IA group. And they were fairly antithetical to one of the ideals of IA anyway of content you could meaningfully engage in even if you only had 15 minutes to play. Of course, back then there was no cross-shard functionality either.

    Now, as of 3.2, if a zone event starts where you are, we simply move the IA raid to a new location. The move happens as soon as the current Adventure concludes.

    A lot of changes are coming to IA.
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    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    FOR EVERYONE ELSE THAT PLAYS IA...

    Today's hotfix included a change to the ramping of Kill objectives in Goboro. I would be interested in feedback to these adjustments with the eye of rolling them out to other zones.

    Currently, the scaling is something like:
    1-2 players = kill 8 normal mobs
    3-5 players = kill 10 normal mobs + 5 empowered mobs
    6+ players = add on more normal mobs quickly

    The jump from 2 players to 3 players was pretty harsh, even worse if a group started as 3 and then 1 drops. >.<

    The new scaling is:
    1-2 players = 6 norm + 1 empowered
    3-5 players = 9 norm + 2 empowered
    6-9 players = 12 norm + 3 empowered
    10-14 players = 16 norm + 4 empowered
    15-20 players = 22 norm + 5 empowered

    There is some variation in the above numbers depending on mob difficulty and density, but that is the new base line in GR. Let me know how that feels.
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    Plane Walker Omedon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    As of 3.2, this will no longer be an issue - there will be no more Zone Event adventures.

    Some background - IA did not have these adventures originally, but every time a zone event popped up, half the raid (at least) would chase the zone event while in the IA group. So to cope with that, we added it as an actual adventure. Which worked... "ok" pre-SL and with only a couple of zones of IA. As zones got added and as IA raid sizes got smaller from being dispersed across multiple zones, these adventures become road blocks to an IA group. And they were fairly antithetical to one of the ideals of IA anyway of content you could meaningfully engage in even if you only had 15 minutes to play. Of course, back then there was no cross-shard functionality either.

    Now, as of 3.2, if a zone event starts where you are, we simply move the IA raid to a new location. The move happens as soon as the current Adventure concludes.

    A lot of changes are coming to IA.
    This whole post is full of win, so I will address it a piece at a time.

    RE: No longer getting "complete the zone event:" My friends who play IAs for time time efficiency (myself among them some days) thank you for this. The 15-person gate made this less of a deal breaker, but I won't lie that my "potion time efficiency" sense is crying in joy at this change.

    RE: Transporting the group upon the start of a zone event: I like this, a lot, for times that I am just "enjoying IAs," for example doing the daily randoms, but I do think that this will get the unintended consequence of people bailing when they are zapped out of silverwood or freemarch, where they queued specifically for the time efficiency. I'm not saying that to take that ideal's side, mind you, but it's clear from watching IA raid chat that these areas are popular, and thus get large groups, because they are GOGOGOGOGO and characters of all true levels will be able to contribute equally if not overpoweredly (it's a word now). Between you and me (and, you know, everyone that will read this), I'm not going to complain if there's a paradigm shift that sees larger groups in areas other than SW and FM. I happen to like silverwood as a zone, but I'd love to see more areas get the love that silverwood does, and if that's mechanically facilitated, I will certainly not complain.

    (My partner will still hate gloamwood IAs though hehe)
    "Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it." -Raistlin Majere

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    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Bosses are not the only part of low level IA that will be seeing buffs. Empowered mobs will be coming to low levels as well (hopefully in time for 3.2, but if not then shortly after), and the rest of the low level content will be getting reviewed and tweaked.

    The goal is to normalize the pace of IA. GR should start running faster, low level zones a bit slower (but not too slow - it is still Instant Adventure!), etc.
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    Plane Walker Omedon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Bosses are not the only part of low level IA that will be seeing buffs. Empowered mobs will be coming to low levels as well (hopefully in time for 3.2, but if not then shortly after), and the rest of the low level content will be getting reviewed and tweaked.

    The goal is to normalize the pace of IA. GR should start running faster, low level zones a bit slower (but not too slow - it is still Instant Adventure!), etc.
    Excellent and elegant solution to silverwood and freemarch being THE places to be. It doesn't solve the issue completely, and I'm not convinced it needs to be totally solved (I doubt SW/FM groups will shrink that far, and that's ok), but it does give the time efficiency minded player a reason to step out of these two zones and not feel quite as slowed. Lately I've been letting my randoms rot because just queueing silverwood for the same amount of time it would take to go wherever with 3-4 other people for 14 randoms just felt like more XP. Slowing down SW and FM will help with this effect immensely!

    Thank you for all your commitment to those of us that enjoy IAs as intended!
    "Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it." -Raistlin Majere

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    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Oh, I forgot one more change on the horizon for IA in SL zones. Many of the IAs in SL involve going to find an NPC to get a temp ability for the Adventure.

    The idea behind this was to get a bit of NPC dialog for more story context. The reality is that the pacing of IA meant that almost no one read that anyway, but EVERYONE then needed to track down this NPC first, adding a speed bump to actually playing the adventure. It was made even worse in that the UI markers for where to find these NPCs was often just off the minimap range, so players would need to open their main map to find the NPC adding yet another speed bump before playing the (instant?) adventure. :P

    I understand why the idea was tried (to add story), but the reality is that it just didn't work well. I will be going through those adventures to strip out that step and give the temp ability directly to all players in the adventure the way it is done in all other IA areas. Again, this is hopefully in time for 3.2, but we will see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    FOR EVERYONE ELSE THAT PLAYS IA...

    The jump from 2 players to 3 players was pretty harsh, even worse if a group started as 3 and then 1 drops. >.<

    The new scaling is:
    1-2 players = 6 norm + 1 empowered
    3-5 players = 9 norm + 2 empowered
    6-9 players = 12 norm + 3 empowered
    10-14 players = 16 norm + 4 empowered
    15-20 players = 22 norm + 5 empowered

    There is some variation in the above numbers depending on mob difficulty and density, but that is the new base line in GR. Let me know how that feels.
    This is beautiful, smooths things out when group size suddenly shifts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Oh, I forgot one more change on the horizon for IA in SL zones. Many of the IAs in SL involve going to find an NPC to get a temp ability for the Adventure.

    The idea behind this was to get a bit of NPC dialog for more story context. The reality is that the pacing of IA meant that almost no one read that anyway, but EVERYONE then needed to track down this NPC first, adding a speed bump to actually playing the adventure. It was made even worse in that the UI markers for where to find these NPCs was often just off the minimap range, so players would need to open their main map to find the NPC adding yet another speed bump before playing the (instant?) adventure. :P

    I understand why the idea was tried (to add story), but the reality is that it just didn't work well. I will be going through those adventures to strip out that step and give the temp ability directly to all players in the adventure the way it is done in all other IA areas. Again, this is hopefully in time for 3.2, but we will see.
    This saddens me. It is obviously the right choice based upon how people run the IA, but I liked the inclusion of context. People complain about grind, but when you try to turn grind into story and interaction that gets complained about too.

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    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Salvatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendun View Post
    This saddens me. It is obviously the right choice based upon how people run the IA, but I liked the inclusion of context. People complain about grind, but when you try to turn grind into story and interaction that gets complained about too.
    To replace this NPC interaction that did not work out so well, we just got a new feature at my request to address this a different way - a bit of VO that we can play when a quest gets accepted (and IAs are still technically quests). This way, some story context can be imparted, probably even better than a short bit of dialog window could do, without slowing down the pacing.

    Hammerknell is the first place where I will be playing with this feature, but I would love to go back and add it to older zones of IA if I eventually get a chance to do so.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    As an aside, bosses and other IA content in low level zones like SW and FM will be getting a buff. Basically, GR IA got reigned in, low level IA content is getting brought up, with the goal of the over all challenge being more consistent. I don't have an ETA on the low level changes yet - I have to get some other new IA content done first...
    The problem, though, is that the challenge level of low level IAs is actually around where it should be for people of the appropriate level.

    It's when people are mentored down that you run into problems. Certain specs and abilities do not interact well with the mentoring formulas, and end up being hilariously overpowered (or in some cases, completely useless).

    Increasing the strength of low-level IA bosses will just punish groups that don't happen to have high level mentored players around.

    And it's not just the super low-level areas where this is a problem. Ember Isle (and anywhere else that you get mentored to 50) is a complete joke as a mentored level 65, because you end up with quadruple the health of an actual level 50 while doing at least triple the damage. Especially if you're using level 65 masteries like Planar Variation, which are capable of knocking off 40-50% of an IA boss's health in 3 seconds.
    Last edited by Muspel; 03-04-2015 at 01:29 PM.

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    Plane Walker Omedon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Oh, I forgot one more change on the horizon for IA in SL zones. Many of the IAs in SL involve going to find an NPC to get a temp ability for the Adventure.

    The idea behind this was to get a bit of NPC dialog for more story context. The reality is that the pacing of IA meant that almost no one read that anyway, but EVERYONE then needed to track down this NPC first, adding a speed bump to actually playing the adventure. It was made even worse in that the UI markers for where to find these NPCs was often just off the minimap range, so players would need to open their main map to find the NPC adding yet another speed bump before playing the (instant?) adventure. :P

    I understand why the idea was tried (to add story), but the reality is that it just didn't work well. I will be going through those adventures to strip out that step and give the temp ability directly to all players in the adventure the way it is done in all other IA areas. Again, this is hopefully in time for 3.2, but we will see.
    I like this change, and in light of the objections presented (which are certainly valid), allow me to retort from the perspective of an active roleplayer and therefore appreciative party as it relates to story.

    The short version: No one is playing IAs for story, and one can't be expected to, when they are randomly cobbled together with random people from random servers. Blunt and honest. If you like the official RIFT story, the standard questlines are the vehicle for that.

    The longer version: My favourite thing about RIFT is how malleable and concept-enabling the game is, from cosmetics, to dimensions, to the soul system, to the archetypical but still well written official lore. The other thing I like about this aspect, is how minimally invasive it is to headcanon and personal storylines developed by PCs. I am almost always roleplaying while doing IAs, with someone, in tells (so as to not burden the IA raid with our banter). The general RP canon for our IAs is "patrolling the land as ascended heroes and solvers-of-problems," and honestly, that's all the story I need. IAs are a fun, inclusive, accessible medium of, let's be real here, grinding for XP and other rewards, and the smoother it flows, the better people can enjoy it in their own way, be it by listening to podcasts, taking in the Telaran scenery, or roleplaying in the background. The less invasive, the better, and these "speed bumps" of "story" got in the way of that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    To replace this NPC interaction that did not work out so well, we just got a new feature at my request to address this a different way - a bit of VO that we can play when a quest gets accepted (and IAs are still technically quests). This way, some story context can be imparted, probably even better than a short bit of dialog window could do, without slowing down the pacing.

    Hammerknell is the first place where I will be playing with this feature, but I would love to go back and add it to older zones of IA if I eventually get a chance to do so.
    Voiceover bits would be really fun, and non-invasive, and I'd love to see that. Also... This is the first time I've seen hammerknell referenced directly as a thing that is certainly happening! I mean, I knew it was something hinted at, but I'm very happy for the context used here!
    Last edited by Omedon; 03-04-2015 at 02:39 PM.
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    Plane Walker Omedon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    The problem, though, is that the challenge level of low level IAs is actually around where it should be for people of the appropriate level.

    It's when people are mentored down that you run into problems. Certain specs and abilities do not interact well with the mentoring formulas, and end up being hilariously overpowered (or in some cases, completely useless).

    Increasing the strength of low-level IA bosses will just punish groups that don't happen to have high level mentored players around.

    And it's not just the super low-level areas where this is a problem. Ember Isle (and anywhere else that you get mentored to 50) is a complete joke as a mentored level 65, because you end up with quadruple the health of an actual level 50 while doing at least triple the damage. Especially if you're using level 65 masteries like Planar Variation, which are capable of knocking off 40-50% of an IA boss's health in 3 seconds.
    This, I think, is a valid concern.

    For example, one may have noticed that in the new IA sidekicking paradigm, one generally doesn't have to think about their gear too hard... unless they are the exact level that everyone is getting mentored to, as it seems that the mentoring/sidekicking is making sure everyone present is put into a state to properly contribute. I'm not complaining about this AT ALL, taking the worries of gear off my shoulders so long as I make sure I'm always mentored or sidekicked has been a blessing, but I'm dreading the time I get "exposed" in a situation where my newer character is actually level 61 in goboro, not sidekicked, and hasn't added new gear since the 48-50 storm legion gear reset quests... which is a situation that IA devotion can potentially enable, if not worse. I haven't seen the IA income of infinity stones versus the costs for SL gear post NT.

    The long and the short of my thoughts here basically boil down to realizing that IAs are their own game-within-a-game, almost a tab-target OARPG within RIFT. I personally love that game-within-a-game, and don't touch any other PVE content any more. Now for 12 of my 13 characters, who did questing in storm legion and have quest gear up to level 58-60, they're set so long as IAs don't go above and beyond Goboro, but IA devotees, like my brand new guy, are seeing a very slow gear drip, (especially with the mathosian adventure dealer selling planar gear with planarite costs that IAs don't provide for any more) and those forced to face the instant adventure monsters "on par" (meaning not tweaked up or down) need to be just as "viable" as those that are being mentored or sidekicked, as those people are not having to worry as much about gear.

    EDIT: I suppose a fair rebuttal to this is "Auction house greens," and I accept that... IF IAs are paying well enough, which I can't report on, myself already being established as a player with 13 characters.
    Last edited by Omedon; 03-04-2015 at 03:06 PM.
    "Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it." -Raistlin Majere

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  15. #15
    Champion of Telara caduto's Avatar
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    Default where will you take us?

    Now, as of 3.2, if a zone event starts where you are, we simply move the IA raid to a new location. The move happens as soon as the current Adventure concludes.


    will the raid be moved to the same zone but a different shard? or to a new zone entirely?
    if it is an entirely new zone, that will very much upset those of us who are choosing those zones specifically to grind out the 500 IA cheevos...
    please clarify

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