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Thread: Major Invasions - Rewards vs Effort

  1. #1
    Telaran Asmiroth's Avatar
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    Default Major Invasions - Rewards vs Effort

    Preamble: I play a 50 warrior and 50 cleric. I've healed, tanked, supported and DPSed all types of invasions. This topic is about major invasions and more specifically, the ones in Stillmoor and Shimmersand.

    Issue: Rift rewards do not match rift effort. I think Trion already knows that the Water invasion in Stillmoor is severely broken.

    Rewards include: Invasions give ~60 planarite per kill. Mini-bosses give ~60 planarite. Targets give ~60planarite. They all have the same chance at extra rewards, from my experience.

    Effort to complete: Invasions come at an amazing pace, at worse 1 per 30 seconds at best 1 every 10 seconds and takes 5-10 seconds to kill. Mini-bosses are rare, static, usually blocking something and take 3 minutes or so to kill. Targets are static and baring the Water one in Stillmoor, take 3-5 minutes to kill. Usually you'll get an invasion force come by every 30-60 seconds though in some cases, never at all.

    In Shimmersand, nearly the entire invasion is in one spot so running around has the same amount of invasions as staying put. In Stillmoor you have to run across half the map to take out the targets or you can stay in Zareph's Return and let invasions come to you.

    From personal experience, I can make 2,000 planarite in Shimmersand if I stand still or if I move and the event is over pretty quick. In Stillmoor, I can make 15,000 planarite by standing in Zareph's or I can make 2,000 planarite by actually completing the objectives. This problem becomes more evident when you consider Omen Sight costs 25,000 planarite.

    There is currently no reason whatsoever to complete target objectives or to kill bosses rather that solely target invasions given the effort required other than to progress the quest.

    Proposed Solution:
    - Increase the rewards for killing bosses and targets by a factor of 10 and increase the GCD contribution limit by the same amount so people don't double tag.
    - Increase the amount of invasions that spawn around a target/mini boss and have them engage during the fight
    - Include a hidden counter that increases your chances of blue/purple drops based on the number of quest targets you have personally assisted in completing



    I think Rifts and Invasions are a great thing and at a basic level, they work really well. From a meta perspective, they need some balancing to ensure that people who truly put effort into completing them are rewarded appropriately.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Hez
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    Last nights Major Invasion in Stillmoor (Death+Water) was exactly proves what Asmiroth is saying.

    2 Major Idols for each faction, (4 total) with 4.5million HP each, plus the 2 bosses with over 1mil each. Rewards? 1 Ancient Sourceshard for most people. The idols themselves took over 15 minutes EACH for our raid (sure we didn't have a lot willing to do it because of the HP and time needed but it's still over an hour)

    This solution really was the best out of the lot in my opinion.

    - Include a hidden counter that increases your chances of blue/purple drops based on the number of quest targets you have personally assisted in completing

    I'm sick of seeing people come into a group, kill 1 invasion force and get rare loot. When myself and others have been sitting there killing as much as possible from the start of the invasion.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Sammoth's Avatar
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    I have to agree. Reward vs Risk and time isn't worth it. We found ourselfs just farming the incomming invasions for about 2hrs. Esp late when not enough people are on. People have a valid point maybe some Random gear or something making the effort worth the time. Don't get me wrong it's a great event very kewl having hordes of mobs attacking but, make the effort worth it.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple camelotcrusade's Avatar
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    I'm glad people like you are posting clear, well-thought out posts about this. I'm not quite 50 but have had a small taste of this and am not looking forward to the feast.

    I do want to bring up one more thing that might be a factor. With zones being so big and the mobs packed in so tight, could part of the problem simply be getting to where the action is in an efficient way?

    In the lower zones a lot of events fail, and I think part of the reason is due to people being in East Bufu when something important is going on in West Bufu. Sure, people will run down you and your grandma to get to the zone boss, but otherwise I think the "can't be bothered" factor increases with distance relative to your goal. You might arrive, you might be too late, or you might get one whack in an 2 planarite.

    So, what to do? Well, I like the idea of an ascended power that teleports you to an invasion. You pop it, pick one on the map, and whomp, there you go. Costs you a planar charge, or maybe it costs all three. But if you really wanted to get there and help, you could. Or you could use it to get around and go on with your business... but either way, invasions would be good things.

  5. #5
    Telaran Asmiroth's Avatar
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    Travel distance and time is less of a factor at level 50 with the epic mount and access to all portals. I can easily run across Silverwood at 50 to take down most of a Cinderon invasion alone and I can assure you that 2 planarite is a paltry reward compared to the thousands you acquire at max level. I tell everyone that will listen that rifts are purely for experience sub 45, especially invasions. A single invasion can easily give you a level or more if you just stand at the defensive point and kill invasions as there is no incentive, even exp-wise, to complete the quests as you actually reduce your leveling gain.

    The main crux of the argument is that we're a hair's away from people no longer completing invasions and simply farming them for planarite and notoriety and sub-50, experience due to the lack of appreciable rewards.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Anraas's Avatar
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    The planarite gains versus effort and time is just too low now. Doing a full level 50 invasion (from start to finish, being at every major point and in the big raid) I got barely 1.7k. Assuming you spend ALL DAY on, and do nothing but Rift invasions in the 50 zones, you will average 8k-10k planarite now. Impressive number yes?

    -This is assuming you spend all day doing it-. Most people aren't on for maybe 2 hours a day and -might- get in on 1-2 full invasions.

    This actually makes people even more unwilling to participate in Rifts.

  7. #7
    Rift Master
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    I was very disappointed the first time we killed a Massive Invasion Boss and he didn't drop themed epic loot.

    Would be cool if major invasion bosses would, would give people a reason to do specific bosses more than just achievements, and would also give a little extra oomph to people who assist. Make it a chance out of the final loot thing based on your contribution to receive a class-based reward.

  8. #8
    Rift Master Bostish's Avatar
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    The # of times I died trying to do the objectives compared to just dealing with the invasion. I have spent several plat on visiting the healer to make me not want to bother with the big invasion, least the objectives.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anraas View Post
    The planarite gains versus effort and time is just too low now. Doing a full level 50 invasion (from start to finish, being at every major point and in the big raid) I got barely 1.7k. Assuming you spend ALL DAY on, and do nothing but Rift invasions in the 50 zones, you will average 8k-10k planarite now. Impressive number yes?

    -This is assuming you spend all day doing it-. Most people aren't on for maybe 2 hours a day and -might- get in on 1-2 full invasions.

    This actually makes people even more unwilling to participate in Rifts.
    I did Moonshade Invasion the other day and got 2.5k planarite for 30 mins of my time.
    <Ethereal Order> - Guardian Guild - Corthana Shard.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwadili View Post
    I did Moonshade Invasion the other day and got 2.5k planarite for 30 mins of my time.
    They added new invasions; the new invasions are utter crap for planarite (about 10% of what the old ones gave), while the old invasions are unchanged. Last night I helped close one of the new invasions in stonefield, and was getting a whopping *1* planarite per ELITE invasion...

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    Pretty sure it was not the event but was a nerf to all event mob drops...

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Levelling an alt mage recently and I was surprised how poor the loot from rifts was. I think I got to 17 before any lesser essence dropped and I was 19 before I looted a pair (#'s 2 and 3, 1st was melee) for the focus I got at level 7.

    Invasions packs were yielding 1 planarite until level 20 when it increased to either 2 or 4. That's the pack solo, without a group or NPCs assisting - 1 planarite.

    I've killed mobs from invasions, closed rifts (4 planarite for 3 or 4 stages solo close) and even cast some spells at invasion bosses but the net result is that at level 30 I cannot afford a decent focus for the level 22 greater essence I looted. Not that I have any excess lessers to equip even if I could afford one.

    Yet again the rewards have been scaled back so far as to make the loot redundant. I got to 27 or 28 before I saw the 500 planarite achievement. I doubt anyone will slow or stop levelling just to grind rifts to get a pre-20 rift armor item.

    tl;dr version = 22 egg shells, 3 lesser, 1 greater and 600 planarite with very active participation by level 30 is terrible and no incentive to engage in content.
    Last edited by WhereAmI; 05-13-2011 at 05:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Telaran Galliard's Avatar
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    The other thing that has dried up is the invasion artifact supply. Used to be that you could collect an entire set if you worked the event from start to finish. Now you might get one white in total if you are lucky. My newer toons don't even have a single piece of the lower level invasion sets despite having completed all five of the Freemarch events.

    And I have definitely seen the drop in planarite. 50s in guild always talking about how easy it is to farm plan. Maybe at 50, but at level 38 I have to spend all day long just to get 1k plan for a planar goods purchase and forget about buying ascended abilities. Typical rift might give 40, invasion somewhere between 6-14.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Good point Galliard, I forgot about artifacts. In the first 3 zones I received one artifact from rifts or invasions.

    To be honest though, artifact drop rates went wonky about 6-8 weeks after head start and have never returned to those levels. I still have 50's that farm plane achievements in all zones and check the AH daily. They are still missing invasion white artifacts that were previously as common as non-invasion whites.

    The worst zones for me are Droughlands and Moonshade despite farming rifts there.

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara
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    Here's some numbers I get for the level 50 events:

    Defeat boss: 150 (I get a 150 and then 50 more, I assume latter is from finishing event?)
    Seal a minor rift from 1-5 - ~50
    Defeating an invasion - ~10

    So defeating the boss is worth about 3 rifts or 15 invasions during the zonewide. Note that the rifts/invasions give reduced reward during zonewides. Normally a minor rift is about ~120, and invasions are about 40-50. This only applies during zonewide so you can actually just kill the hordes of invasions that are wandering around after the boss is dead for the full reward.

    Now looking at these number clearly the way to optimize your gain is to just show up during the boss, that way you get your planarites + blue (assuming you contributed any meaningful amount) there, possibly selling that back for planarites (ancients are worth 250). However, if everyone does this then you won't win the zonewide at all and everyone loses.

    What's funny is back in the old way, when rifts/invasions aren't nerfed, you should leave immediately when the boss is up to another zone (at that point you can't lose barring every person in the zone spontaneously leaving for an hour) because the boss was not worth the time to kill him for the planarite gain (you get your blue as long as he's defeated if you contributed earlier). Now your goal is to do the exact opposite, though you can't be too greedy because if too many people do it, then you never get to the boss and you end up with nothing.

    I've not found any difference in artifact drop rate form invasions. I think this is because people are no longer farming invasions on purpose when you see a rift popping out an invasion every 5 seconds. Now that rift gets shut off immediately instead of just having 20 people farm the the invasions nonstop.

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